Feeding Colt 'Lightning'

PJ Hardtack · September 17, 2011, 07:59:09 PM

There not being a 'Lightning' column on the forum, I wasn't sure where to post this ..... But, since it's Colt repro, maybe it belongs here.

A friend is negotiating a swap and one of the guns he's dangling in front of me is an 'as new' Uberti 'Lightning' Short Rifle with 20" octagonal barrel, case hardened frame, chambered in .45 Colt. He's got long arms and finds the 'Lightning' too short for comfort.
That won't be a problem for me .....

I've heard that they are very finicky about OAL. Has anyone experienced this and what did you do about it? What OAL length works with what bullet type?

Pettifogger · September 17, 2011, 09:11:01 PM

It's not really "finicky" about OAL. People try to feed all sorts of ammo into 66s, 73s, Lightnings etc., and then say they are finicky when they won't feed semi-wadcutter ammo with an OAL of 1.400". These guns were designed to shoot ammo that is roughly 1.590" long. The best ammo for a .45 Lightning is a round nose flat point bullet loaded to between 1.560 and 1.590". I use 200 grain RNFP bullets. It has the same nose profile as the 250 grain bullets but saves some on recoil. As you start going down below 200 grains in bullet weight the noses get shorter to make up the weight loss and the OAL goes down. OK for a revolver. Not so OK for a Lightning. If you are getting a Uberti, make sure it is a second generation as it has some improvements to help with feeding.

PJ Hardtack · September 19, 2011, 10:28:15 AM

Just heard from a friend who shot his .45 Uberti 'Lightning' in a match over the week end. He shot 250 gr bullets loaded to an OAL of 1.58 - 1.59. Nary a bobble, save for one while loading, the usual problem with the type.

How does one know if one has a type 'II'? Are they so marked or does one assume that after a certain date they are type 'II'? What are the differences mechanically?

Pancho Peacemaker · September 22, 2011, 09:35:27 AM

Skip the Uberti Lightning and get a Pedersoli.

I've owned both and the Pedersoli is a much better (i.e. more reliable) firearm.

Had loads of problems with my Uberti . . . and it was not the ammo. I know 2 other shooters who had similar problems with the Uberti Lightning.

My Pedersoli runs like a charm. Always cycles reliably. Shoots faster than my ability.

PJ Hardtack · September 22, 2011, 10:33:36 AM

Well, the .45 Uberti 'Lightning' is on it's way to me .... part of a gun swap deal.

If the 'experts' are right in their condemnation of the type, it'll be on the block PDQ. The last owner assures me that it works reliably as fast as he can operate it using 250 gr bullets loaded warmly with 231. He's 6'4", a bear of a man with long arms. The Lightning is way too short for him or he wouldn't be parting with it.

I find it interesting how some swear by Peds, others swear at them; and same/same for Ubertis. Seems to vary with the type and individual gun.

Even in it's era, the Lightning couldn't hold it's own against the lever action guns of the era. The original must have had issues just like the repros.

St. George · September 22, 2011, 10:59:42 AM

Actually, there was no reason for the 'Lightning' to have to hold it's own at the time of introduction.

Folks didn't speed-shoot to lay down a base of fire, they shot deliberately - and pretty much any of the repros will do that reliably, when handled in that manner.

If the one you're swapping for shows good overall workmanship, and cycles easily - some clones don't - then you should have a decent shooter, so long as you've paid attention to your ammunition.

Good Luck.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

Pettifogger · September 22, 2011, 11:41:05 AM

I have eleven Lightnings and have worked on a bunch more. If you own a Lightning you need to fully understand how your particular model/brand works and how to take them apart and fix them. Lightnings tend to become a hobby on their own. Right now I am using a heavily modified Uberti second generation for competition. I shoot fairly fast and finally have the Uberti shooting reliably and FAST. (I have installed a slam fire mechanism in my Uberti.) HOWEVER, I won't go on a road trip with a Lightning without a backup rifle.

Alabama Red · September 22, 2011, 06:11:45 PM

I have a Uberti/Stoeger Lightning and have found that it is sensitive to the crimp on the cartridge.

It will feed factory or reloaded roll crimp cartridges in the 200-250gr bullet types without a hitch. Other crimps have problems.

It is different and a lot of fun.

Has anyone really experimented or know how hot a cartridge one could shoot in one of these? I like to hunt with my cowboy guns from time to time.

Red

PJ Hardtack · September 22, 2011, 08:39:14 PM

Thanks for the feed back, guys! If I have any problems with the gun, I'll be picking your brains.

What "repairs" am I likely to do on the gun?

I'm not sure I'd want the "slam fire" feature unless I was dealing with a horde of attackers.

PJ Hardtack · September 28, 2011, 07:42:06 PM

First outing with my newly acquired Uberti Lightning in .45 Colt. If this is a "Jammomatic", I'll take it! Beautiful little rifle.

Two different powders, two bullet weights in two handloads and a commercial load. Bullets were 230 gr RN and 250 gr RNFPs. All bullets were loaded to the correct OAL for the bullet design. At 25 and 50 yds, all rds went into the same group off hand.

You do have to operate the action smartly, especially chambering the first round. After that, slick as all get out! It sure is a 'short ass' rifle, even for me. My wife thinks it's a perfect fit and may try to adopt it .... ;>) The guy I swapped it from is 6'4". He found it a tad on the tiny side for his long arms and bear paw mitts.

No wonder this design is popular with the 'gamers'; it's the original 'short stroke' action.

shrapnel · October 12, 2011, 11:09:08 PM

I have had several and now own 2 original Lightnings in 38-40 and 44-40. They both work and I like the 38-40 most and shoot the hell out of it. It is fast and hasn't been a problem other than the magazine spring was weak and created a feeding problem. A simple stretch to the spring changed that. These are both first models only a few serial numbers apart. They have no dust cover and have the bolt locking mechanism that still works. I have them pictured with a Colt 1878 hammer gun and 3 first generation guns in 38-40, 44-40, and 45 Colt. These are truly great guns...

PJ Hardtack · October 13, 2011, 02:00:03 PM

Shrapnel

You are truly the envy of many of us! Beautiful guns!

The only way I could like my Uberti better is if it was in 44-40. But - I can certainly live with it in .45 Colt. Had it out to the range yesterday and learned a little more about handling it. It REALLY needs a positive action, particularly when chambering the 1st rd.
Otherwise I was getting a light hammer fall with just a slight primer hit.

I was shooting both 230 gr and 250 gr loads with Tite Group and Red Dot, 6 grs in both. haven't come to any conclusions as yet, but I'm leaning towards Tite Group as my Rem Kirst .44/45 conversion likes it.

At the end of the session I noticed that the mag plug was loose; close to popping out. looks like I'll need a little Teflon tape on the threads to hold it secure.

shrapnel · October 13, 2011, 09:02:06 PM

You might watch that Teflon tape idea. Teflon tape is not a gap filler or locking material. Teflon is nothing but a lubricating material made for tapered plumbing threads to allow a bit more tightening. A light Loctite might be a better answer if you don't want the threads to loosen up.

Pettifogger · October 13, 2011, 10:10:08 PM

Just try tightening the mag plug a bit with a screwdriver. Uberti designed it to be easily unscrewable so it it jams you can unscrew the knurled plug and get the rounds out of the magazine.

PJ Hardtack · October 15, 2011, 11:27:00 AM

I take it you guys have seen the latest "Rifle" magazine with the article by MV on "Winchester's Rivals".

Wouldn't surprise me if 'Shrapnel' supplied the gun and info to Mike for the article .... :>)

Alabama Red - as for 'hot rodding' the Lightning for hunting, fuggedaboudit! Learn to enjoy the rifle within it's BP potential load parameters. Any pistol load that approaches 1000p fps is going to pick up 150-200 more fps out of a 20" barrel. It worked that way during the era and game isn't any harder to kill today. Need more killing power - use a bigger gun!

Speaking of such, anybody got experience with BP in a Lightning? I'm leery of it, especially with the poor sealing .45 Colt cases. I'm not looking forward to stripping and cleaning the Lightning ..... ;>(

shrapnel · October 16, 2011, 12:42:21 AM

Quote from: PJ Hardtack on October 15, 2011, 11:27:00 AM
I take it you guys have seen the latest "Rifle" magazine with the article by MV on "Winchester's Rivals".

Wouldn't surprise me if 'Shrapnel' supplied the gun and info to Mike for the article .... :>)

Very observant, all but the '92 and the Marlin "Baby Carbine" were mine. He didn't say so as he tries to keep Shrapnel as a whipping boy with no redeeming virtues...

PJ Hardtack · October 16, 2011, 10:28:37 AM

Virtues? You got 'redeeming virtues' .... ? ;>)

I used to, but I got so damn lonely, I gave 'em up. Now I got lots of company .....

Blackpowder Burn · October 20, 2011, 06:39:56 PM

PJ,

I have a USFA Lightning carbine in 44-40 that I shoot with black powder. I don't know if the 45 Colt will give you any sealing issues, but my action is quite clean after a match.

It is truly a hoot with BP, especially when you rip off a string by slam firing (sometimes just can't resist the temptation). I recently had it tuned up by the Lightning "guru" (Eldon Penner, in Nevada). Lordy what a slick little rifle! Eldon has original Colt's that he will replace the internals with all new parts and line the barrel to any caliber you want. I'm think very hard about doing that next year. I'm thinking one in 32-20 would be really sweet.

Colt Fanning · February 07, 2015, 08:54:04 AM

Howdy,
I recently got an original medium frame lightning rifle in 38-40. It is missing the ejectors (cartridge guides). Will Uberti or USFA 44-40 ejectors work in a 38-40 gun? Also has anyone posted a guide for tuning the Lightning?
Regards
Colt

Pettifogger · February 08, 2015, 10:58:57 AM

Quote from: Colt Fanning on February 07, 2015, 08:54:04 AM
Howdy,
I recently got an original medium frame lightning rifle in 38-40. It is missing the ejectors (cartridge guides). Will Uberti or USFA 44-40 ejectors work in a 38-40 gun? Also has anyone posted a guide for tuning the Lightning?
Regards
Colt

I have three Ubertis but I have lock tited in all the ejector screws so I can't get exact measurements. They might fit. The USFAs are "exact" duplicates of a 2nd Gen Colt so they should fit. The .38-40 and .44-40 are the same case. The .38-40 is just a .44-40 necked down a little. The Colt guides were the same for both. USFA never made any .32-20s or .357s so their guides SHOULD fit. One caveat. What generation is your Lightniing? On the 1st Gen guns Colt made both guide rails the same length. What happened was a lot of people back in the day reversed them when cleaning their guns so that they wound up upside down and the guns wouldn't work. On the 2nd Gen models Colt made the guides different lengths so they could not be reversed side to side.