Burnside Carbine serial number (not a Burnside Spencer)

[Preston County Rider]

Two Flints - Sir - I know this isn't one of our Spencers, but I recently bought a very nice Burnside, 5th Model, serial number 13819. The next time you are browsing through your SRS, if you happen to come across Burnsides, would appreciate it if you happen to think "Say, there is a SSS member who has one of these, serial number 13819, I wonder if that carbine is listed?"

Only if you get the chance, Sir.

Thank you

I remain,

Your Obedient Servant

PC Rider

[Two Flints]

Hi P.C. Rider,

13819 - Not an exact match, but all the serial #s above and below yours were issued to the same unit indicated below:

Issued in 1865 to a member of Company D, 6th Illinois Volunteer Cavalry.  My SRS books do not indicate 5th Model, just Burnside Carbine.  So, I'm not sure if this is correct for you.

Two Flints

[Preston County Rider]

Thanks much - but - is the exact match for 13189 or 13819? My carbine is 13819 - was there a missed key stroke there? I know on a personal level that as we "mature", we get a little confused. And forgetful, I think.........

[Two Flints]

P.C. Rider,

By any chance do you mean to imply that I am confused and forgetful            

I corrected my previous post and attribute my serial # error to enthusiastic and unbridled confusion

Two Flints

[Preston County Rider]

Two Flints -

FYI - given your serial number id, I found a listing of troopers for Co D, 6th Ill Vol Cav on line. It lists members, muster in and muster out dates. My Burnside has a stratched message on the stock "Turnover Aug 21 1865" - which I take as a DEROS/ETS reference for a trooper (I have a feeling you know what DEROS/ETS was!). The member listing has a trooper named William Anderson who mustered out on, you guessed it, 21 Aug 1865. He is the only man on the entire list who left service on that date. So, given the SRS, and the listing, and the date, I am 90% sure I've got Anderson's Burnside.

Anderson was from Kent, Illinois. If we have any SSS members from Illinois out there who know about Kent, please let me know.

Again, Two Flints, thanks much.

PC Rider (Vince Zalenski)

[Trailrider]

While I haven't had time to look up my references on the subject, just a short note about the term "5th Model Burnside".  This is a collector's convention, referring to the last modification to the Burnside series carbines. The modification consists of the small screw in the right side of the receiver, which projects into a purpose-made groove in the breechblock, for the purpose of smoothing the motion to open and close the action.  These carbines are also referred to as "4th Model, 2nd Type".

Soldiers mustering out of the Union armies were permitted to purchase their arms on mustering out. Unfortunately, I don't have any idea the cost for a Burnside carbine.  IIRC, a Springfield muzzleloading rifle-musket M1861 or M1863 went for about $13.00, which was at least a month's pay for a private.

You might try to send to the National Archives and find out if there was (a) a military record, and (b) a pension record.  The latter are often more valuable and interesting in finding out about a particular veteran's service and post-war life, depending on how long the veteran survived after the war.  In some cases these pension applications were filed by the veteran's widow.  Where the vet himself filed the application, sometimes in the 1920's, they often listed medical conditions that afflicted them.  A lot of times, they were inclined to present proof of their disabilities to include hernias, and even ingrown toenails, in addition to more, ah, pertinent problems.  Most of the time, they got the pension.  The important thing is that some of the details of their service offer quite personal insights to the Civil (and Indian) wars.

[Arizona Trooper]

Preston County Rider, sounds like you got a hit! Just out of curiosity, is your Burnside marked "Model of 1864" on the breech? Burnside for some unknown reason restarted their serial numbers from 1 on the last run of carbines. Personally, I think they should be known by a separate model designation due to the marking, serial number and the change in the trigger plate. I've been tilting at that windmill for a while. 

[Preston County Rider]

Trooper -

It is marked Model of 1864 which apparently confuses a lot of folks!

PCR

[Two Flints]

Lots of info on the Burnside.  Just do a Google search

Burnside Carbine   Part I
http://www.civilwarguns.com/9606.html

Burnside Carbine   Part II
http://www.civilwarguns.com/9607.html

http://relicman.com/weapons/zArchiveWeaponCarbineBurnside.htm

[Two Flints]

Hi Preston C. R.,

Go to this link:   http://www.joesalter.com/, click on NEW ARRIVALS on the left side of the home page and find Item # 18301, near the top of the next page that comes up, and click on DETAILS for a look see at the Burnside Civil War Mould.

Thought you'd be interested.

Two Flints

[Preston County Rider]

Two Flints - thanks for the tip and link to the mould - however $795 is just a bit too steep for a bullet mould for an old gun (and I am quoting CINCHouse here!)

[Two Flints]

PCR, Wow,  Check out this Burnside Mould 

http://www.jjmilitaryantiques.com/catdet.asp?TargetItem=11476&CategoryType=Moldsflasks

Two Flints

[Jan Buchwald]

I have a well used fourth model, numbered 4931, is it possible to tell any where and when about it?

[Two Flints]

Jan,

I see a Burnside Carbine with a serial # 4940 and also #4965 as being issued to Company L, 18th Pennsylvania Volunteer Cavalry in March, 1863  Closest serial # search to your Burnside Carbine Serial # 4931.

Hope this is of some value to you.

Two Flints

[Jan Buchwald]

Thank you, that brought more life to my carbine. It is, after closer exam, marked cast steel 1862 on the barrel

[Nevada Fred]

Hello, thank you for allowing me to joints group. I recently acquired a Bernside Carbine and have found it was delivered to the Ordinance Department on 4/13/1864 but I would like to know if there are any sources for where it was dispatched to? It is a 5th version, 1864 dated, s/n 5097; cast steel 1864 on the barrel. It has matching serial numbers on most every part including the buttstock. A :)ny help would be greatly appreciated.

thank you!

[Two Flints]

Hi Nevada Fred, (nice first name )

This is what I found using my research books . . . you have two possible choices.

I checked on your Burnside Carbine serial # 5097.  I found Burnside Carbine serial #s 5082, and 5115 were issued to Company L, 5th Ohio Volunteer Cavalry in April, 1863.

There was also a Burnside Carbine, serial # 5073 issued to Company D, 6th Illinois Volunteer Cavalry in 1865.

Your Burnside COULD HAVE been issued to either unit . . . please read my Spencer Serial # Disclaimer as posted on my Home Page.  Hope this information helps.

Two Flints

[Nevada Fred]

Thank you very much, from the dates and units you listed I would think the latter of the two would be the best fit.

[Trailrider]

I haven't researched these two in a long time, but what do you have on Burnside carbines (5th models, both) S/N 5037 and 5045? The Burnsides were IMHO some of the best breachloaders of the CW. Gas seal was excellent, and extraction was easy, even after firing a number of rounds. Interestingly, if tophat caps were used, when the breachblock was lowered, a projection on the gun, would knock the fired cap off, making one less step required to load another round.

[Two Flints]

Trailrider,

Checked my SRS books, and your Burnside serial #s 5037 & 5045 MAY HAVE been issued to the same unit, Company L, 5th Ohio Volunteer Cavalry in April 1863.  A number of serial #s close to the ones you provided went to the same unit, to include
# 5023 &  # 5042.  Hope this helps.

Two Flints