.458 Winchester Magnum

[Mossyrock]

You're probably wondering what on Earth this Elephant Thumper is doing on a CAS board.....  Well, I might be coming into one of these in the near future, and shooting it with good and proper bullets and powder intrigues me.  Given that it has an almost identical case capacity to the 45-90, I see no reason it wouldn't work with ffg and a properly lubed 500gr Government bullet.  Besides...I haven't loaded a smokeless cartridge in over five years.  Why break my streak now?

Has anyone tried the .458 Winchester with the Holy Black?

[Wolfgang]

I envision one problem.



If you don't drop him with that first shot. . . . .




The smoke cloud gives the elephant yur location . . . .











and that first one probably made him mad . . . .













He'll run over to whur that smoke cloud is . . . . . . and STOMP on you !   

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Technically, I see no problems in loading this one with BP.  The historians will say it is not PC, as the first belted case, the .400/.375 H&H belted magnum dates only back to 1905.

[Mako]

You're probably wondering what on Earth this Elephant Thumper is doing on a CAS board.....  Well, I might be coming into one of these in the near future, and shooting it with good and proper bullets and powder intrigues me.  Given that it has an almost identical case capacity to the 45-90, I see no reason it wouldn't work with ffg and a properly lubed 500gr Government bullet.  Besides...I haven't loaded a smokeless cartridge in over five years.  Why break my streak now?

Has anyone tried the .458 Winchester with the Holy Black?

Mossyrock,

It will work like a champ!  A business partner of mine iis leaving Sunday for a hunt in Mozambique.  He's using a .375 for Cape Buffalo and a 9.3 X 63 for plains game and taking a .458 along as a back up gun and in case they are diverted to a different area for their hunts.  We were just talking about BP in current modern cases Thursday at dinner!  It's not on par with the old larger cases intended for dangerous game and BP but it will hold it's on with a .45-90.

Anneal your case mouths about 1/2 inch and it will seal better. The .458 Win brass isn't any thicker at the mouth but if it is like my belted magnum cases I find the necks are harder than what I find on cases like .45-70, etc.

I'm thinking about trying the holy black in my new .458 SOCOM carbine I'm putting together.  Ballisically the .458 SOCOM is the equivalent of a .45-70 if you are using smokeless propellants.  However the case capacity of a SOCOM is 65.7 gr and the .45-70 is 80.1 gr empty.  So you can't match the .45-70 with the .458 SOCOM with traditional FFg loads, it will always be almost 15 grains less powder.  With the short 16 inch barrel I'm going to try FFFg and I might be able to match what we get out of a Marlin .45-70 Trapper.  It will foul the gas system and the bolt piston, but it will literally BE A BLAST!

We were talking about dispatching Zombies during the Zombie Apocalypse with BP on STORM, but I decided I wouldn't have time to pick up .458 SOCOM brass if I was occupied with popping zombies so I even designed a new cartridge just to use with a BP carbine.  I call it the .405 Cowboy Zombie Whacker.



If I made it, I would make either a short stroke gas piston fully vented to ambient or a connected operating rod upper to keep the internals clean.  The connected op rod might be the best bet since there is already significant recoil I don't think the bolt slap or the recoiling mass moving back forward would be noticeable.

Oh, sorry...We were talking about .458 Winchester Mag., yep I think it would make a very good real powder zombie whacking rifle.

Regards,
Mako

[StrawHat]

I have used the 458 loaded with black powder and a Gould bullet to take a few deer.  It does indeed work much like a 45-90.  Back then, I did not anneal the cases and got some blow back into the action which made cleaning a bit harder but not much.  Check your rifling twist as it may not like your 500 grain bullets but otherwise, it is merely a belted BP Express cartridge.

[Percussion Pete]

I don't have an answer to your question, but a small story about the gun.

A long time ago when I was young and full of energy. I got an offer from a friend to work his gold claim in Alaska. He told me the area was loaded with grizzly's, and I should bring a big gun to stop them.

So, I went looking for a big gun. I located someone who was an African hunter, and asked him if he had any guns for sale. He said he had just what I needed to stop a grizzly in it's tracks. It turned out to be a .458 mag in a beautiful Winchester 70. He gave me some 500gr ammo too.

I couldn't get to the range quick enough to try it. I get setup to shoot and pick a steel bore running on a track back and forth. Looking back now. That wasn't a good choice. I put the open sights on it and fire. CRIPES! It knock off my hat, and knocked the bore off the track. What a gun!

I was asked to leave the range. I apologized, but I knew I had my grizzly gun.

[fourfingersofdeath]

When I first started shooting cowboy, I took my 44 Mag Rusgers along. Got the ammo muddled up and used my Elmer Keith loads 245Gn SWC with 22 Gns 2400.

Bowled the first target clean over and punched a hole through it. The range officer was the guy who built the targets and we could see daylight throught the fallen target. He said 'that there damage will cost about $20 to fix, you can stop now or spend $200 if you shoot all ten targets!' I stopped and peeled out $20.

My mate went interstate for a handgun silouette match he took a sporter 30/06 with him to shoot rifle as well. Al he had was old milsup ammo, He was sighting away and didn't realise he was using tracers, he set fire to the steel target. He was asked to leave as well.

The 458 Will go well, they only problem I can see is blowback from the very solid case being too hard to seal off the chamber properly. Might not be a problem at all, but all I could think of.