Rifles and Revolvers

[Oregon Bill]

This is my foundational gear, an 1841 Mississippi, .54 caliber; Second Model Dragoon; bag and horn; Jefferson bootees. Long trail ahead though ...

[Tsalagidave]

Capt Mac, I like the look of your shooting bag and patch knife.  Any chance of a close up of it? Also, what's in it? I never get tired of checking out other shooter's kits.

Oregon Bill, that is some serious firepower you have there. I'm jealous, and I want a .54 US Yeager Rifle too.

-Dave

[Tsalagidave]

Since everyone else is showing their 1840-50s stuff, I figured I would also.
My main gun is a .54 Cal full-stocked plains rifle with squared "haversack"-styled shooting bag. My second gun (for the packhorse) is a 20ga./.62 southern mountain gun that is smoothbore and great for picking off small game but it will put a patched .610 ball pretty close to the mark at 75 yards regularly. The pack is more of a traditional 1770s era eastern woodlands pattern.  In addition to that, I have a brace of navy sixes. (I usually carry only one when I am out on the trail.) The Colt pocket is a fun little backyard plinker but other than winning knife fights, it would not be my first choice for border warfare.

-Dave

[Oregon Bill]

Dang, Dave, more swell gear! How long you been doin' this?

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

I bought a Pedersoli Scout .50 Caliber cap 'n' ball rifle and am thinking that it would be the perfect rifle to use as a poor 1862 cavalry private ... something he might have brought in with him from home ... I am told it would not work for that purpose 'cause it is a cutdown 'Pennsylvania' style rifle ... any thoughts

[Caleb Hobbs]

Hello, Wad:

Good question. The governing body had been working on what is correct and what isn't, but unfortunately we let things slide as we got into fall and people started gearing up for winter. As you can imagine, it's a slow process even under the best of conditions, since so many firearms from this period could be locally made.

Just remember that what we're trying to create is a group with an emphasis on historical accuracy. Not one hundred percent, but better than the average rendezvous or some of the cowboy shoots, where you can see a wide range of non-PC outfits. Think Level-One NCOWS, or what the folks at GAF are trying to accomplish.

You're right in that your rifle is shorter than the norm, but the basic silhouette is that of a Kentucky (or Pennsylvania, the difference is slight). If you showed up at an American Plainsmen Society match or encampment with it, I'd allow it. Especially for a woman or youngster.

What we're trying to stay away from is the Thompson Center or CVA or Cabela's Hawkens, which are no closer to an actual Hawkens rifle than a Henry Big Boy is to an original Henry. The Lyman Great Plains rifle or the Pedersoli Kentucky rifles are acceptable; the Traditions Kentucky rifle with its brass band connecting a two-piece stock isn't.

I'll also add that the governing body is in agreement that we need to give new members one year to get their basic outfit together. Hopefully within the next month or so we can have a list of correct guns available and posted.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

I am thinking that I will run into this big windfall that allows me to get an L Romano Maynard ... something that was issued to the Confederate Cavalry at one time ... but at $1K just to to get on the list and $3K more upon completion, I don't see it happening tomorrow ....

But if I end up buying something new, I want a breechloader ... and the Maynard seems to be the only breechloader that could be reoladed and carried by a lowly Confederate enlisted guy .... and I understand that the Model 1 Maynards were issued to some Confederate Cavalry .... just very few in Florida .... sigh

[Jed Cooper]

   I have been thinking about our future, and it looks good! Wonder what everybody thinks about guns for shoots once we start getting together (postal or in person). Period correct rifle is a given but 1 pistol ?, 2 pistols ?, scattergun ? Most Plainsmen probably wouldn't have bothered with a scattergun. Distances on the Plains are too great. However, this time also includes wagon train emmigrants  and '49ers both of which could have carried shotguns. Carrying 2 pistols (or more) was a common practice with cap and ball revolvers but the more guns we require, the more we become like the other groups. Since we are NOT timing ourselves, it gives us more latitude when it comes to reloading.This levels the playing field between revolvers and single shot pistols. I like that. It becomes more realistic and historically accurate. This also allows a person to carry the firearms that he feels is appropriate for his personna and still be able to compete. Another bonus!
   Also, I realize that we are The American Plains---'MEN' Society. Does that mean that we are a 'men only' group or do we include any woman who wants what we want from the sport. Personally, I believe that we should include anyone regardless of sex to join as long as they are willing to strive for the levels of authenticity that the rest of us seek. In fact, our time period was the era when non-native women began arriving in the West in numbers. This would also allow family involvement, again keeping authenticity levels in mind.
   I am sure many of you feel the same way but if not let's discuss the pro's and con's of these issues. My only concern is that we remain dedicated to the concept of HISTORIC ACCURACY. We all want to have fun but we should not sacrifice authenticity ito do so. I don't want to sound like a Thread-counting  Nazi. I just believe that it is easier (and cheaper in the long run ) to do the research and do things right the first time. Too often I have seen the "it's close enough" and "if they had it they would have used it" mind set ruin a good thing. I don't want TAPS to fall into it.
   I don't want to offend anyone or seem 'elitist'. The farthest thing from my mind. I just figure if we are going to do this, we might as well do it right. Thanks fer listening.

"SCOUTIN' for SHAGGIES"

BUFFALO BILL

I never understood men/ woman Shooting classes. The ladies are not at a physical disadvantage shooting..    Dave

[buffalo bill]

Jed,
  I am not sure what you are getting at. In the first place, that post was a long time ago when this group was forming. Secondly, I didn't say anything regarding "men/women" shooting classes. I was actually commenting on how historically correct it is for TAPS to include women. Lastly, TAPS doesn't have shooting classes. At least not yet. I would like to think that when we do reach that point, men and women would shoot side by side. Perhaps I misunderstood your post.

"SCOUTIN' for SHAGGIES"

  BUFFALO BILL

[Caleb Hobbs]

Jed:

Welcome to The American Plainsmen Society. I look forward to your input on the board.

I agree with you and Bill both -- women don't need a separate class. They need to toe the line with everyone else, and the best man, woman, or youngster wins the beans. I'm putting together a postal match that I should have added to the forum this week that will be open to all members.

Will either of you be at the fall encampemnt this October? There are going to be some good matches and great times.

Caleb

EDITED: My mistake, the encampment and shoot will be September 20-23.

[Tsalagidave]

Thanks Bill,

I've been doing this for over 20 years. Here's a close up of the Bag and guns.

[Quickdraw]

Fellers,
This sounds like what I've been lookin for! With SASS you really couldn't shoot BP---took to long to make up cartridges.

With shootin muzzleloaders, theres no problem! Have 2 cap n ball Remingtons, and a Mississippi rifle. Would like to get a good plains rifle instead.

Where is this get together gointa be? Sounds like fun!!

[Caleb Hobbs]

Quickdraw:

The 2012 Encampment and Shoot is going to be held in Eastern Kansas this year, the latter part of September. Check out the thread at the top of the Plainsmen page for more details. Hope to see you there.

Caleb

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,


Because I do so much reenacting, I am ready for anything from about 1810-1900...

1810- 1850s: Pedersoli Scout and Lyman Plains Pistol ... both percussion





1851- mid 1870s: Pedersoli Scout/ASM 51 Colt/'58 Pietta Remington





Mid 1870s -1900: Pair of Schofields/1887 Winchester Lever Shotgun/'73 Winchester

[Rafe Covington]

2 Uberti 2nd. Dragoons and a 1842 69 cal rifled musket. Tryin to get everything together.

[Caleb Hobbs]

Sounds good, Rafe. I look forward to seeing your outfit someday.

[Jake MacReedy]

Looks like I might be getting a Colt 2nd Generation '51 Navy soon!  If and when I do, I will post pictures of said revolver.  It's a Robert E. Lee commemorative from 1971 in pretty good condition.

Regards,
Jake

[Tsalagidave]

Bill, I share your interests here. Although I am all about getting it down to the stitch, that's my thing and I'm not forcing it on others who are pursuing authenticity without my level of OCD. My preference would be an person,or someone aspiring to have an impression that could be responsibly presented before a classroom as a good representation of typically "how it was back then".

I am all for members of both sexes participating and I also share your dedication to historic accuracy. I've met quite a few women in this hobby (both in the US and Europe) who do an accurate impression of an American frontier-woman. These girls have true grit and are great shooters. The best part is that they do a historically accurate impression (no farbed-out Sharon Stone "Gunfighter" gear but more of a kick-ass version of Laura Ingles as the women ancestors of my family were.) I wish they were in this club to show others how it is done. They take their research seriously and are not tolerant of the way others cheapen the significance of American femininity on the frontier plains. 

In regards to shotguns, I'm open to it because I use a single-barreled fowler on the open desert and have had a lot of success nabbing doves, quails and other small game. I get reasonable accuracy at 80 yards with a patched .61 ball. I'm liking the enthusiasm here and look forward to feedback from all interested in doing this.

-Dave

[Pothook]

So, I wanted to post this in the approved / disapproved thread; but that seems to be locked. Question for all concerned- Colt 1851 Navy brass-framed revolvers in .44 prohibited, which is fine since they never existed. Now Pietta is making steel-framed 1851Navys in .44 that to me look almost identical to .36 Navys.

I would like to buy a pair  as much for the novelty as anything else, but what do all concerned think about using them at a encampment / shoot?

Except for the size of the holes in the paper; I don't think anyone would know the difference...

Oh, and if anyone has an 1841 Mississippi rifle for sale let me know!

Thanks all, Pothook out.

[Caleb Hobbs]

Hi, Pothook:

We're trying to keep the American Plainsmen Society as historically accurate as possible, without be so restrictive that only a hardcore re-enactor would join. If it didn't exist, it isn't acceptable at a Plainsmen shoot or encampment.

We also place a lot of emphasis on "common useage" -- in firearms, clothing, and equipment. As an example, and although not directly related to the .44 Navy question, I was looking at some powder flasks from the Middle-East at a gun show today. Really interesting items, and no doubt from our time frame, but I doubt if any ever made it onto the American frontier. And even is they did, they wouldn't have been common.

Caleb