new side by side please help

Harleyx2 · August 23, 2011, 05:05:25 PM

Im looking for a new side by side and have narrowed it down to 2. Should I go with the Stoeger coach gun or the EAA Bounty Hunter 2? What are the pros and cons of each? I would like to be able to disable the auto safety on eithr one. Thanks

Bugscuffle · August 23, 2011, 09:10:46 PM

In the first place, am not a fan of external hammer shotguns or coach guns (20" barrel or less), so I can't advise you on your choice. I got involved in a discussion on safeties and disabling them in another thread not long ago, and my take on thay is that disabling the auto safety is not a good idea on guns that do NOT have exposed hammers. On guns with exposed hammers, and yes that includes the Winchester lever actions, I don't see the need for a safety at all. But my Rossi Mod 92 has one and I just leave it in the "Fire" position at all times and keep the hammer on the safety notch when I have a shell in the chamber. While hunting, the exposed hammer is THE quietest safty in the world. With the hammer in the safety notch position, just pull the trigger pull the hammer back and release the trigger. Absolutely zero noise!

Harleyx2 · August 23, 2011, 10:06:59 PM

Quote from: Bugscuffle on August 23, 2011, 09:10:46 PM
In the first place, am not a fan of external hammer shotguns or coach guns (20" barrel or less), so I can't advise you on your choice. I got involved in a discussion on safeties and disabling them in another thread not long ago, and my take on thay is that disabling the auto safety is not a good idea on guns that do NOT have exposed hammers. On guns with exposed hammers, and yes that includes the Winchester lever actions, I don't see the need for a safety at all. But my Rossi Mod 92 has one and I just leave it in the "Fire" position at all times and keep the hammer on the safety notch when I have a shell in the chamber. While hunting, the exposed hammer is THE quietest safty in the world. With the hammer in the safety notch position, just pull the trigger pull the hammer back and release the trigger. Absolutely zero noise!

The safety will still work just wont turn on everytime you open the gun.

wildman1 · August 24, 2011, 04:31:59 AM

Yep safety still works just doesn't go on every time ya open the gun. WM

Trailrider · August 24, 2011, 10:38:07 AM

I can't give you a specific evaluation of either, but will give you some food for thought....

Outside hammer doubles that HAVE REBOUNDING HAMMERS plus an automatic safety, probably don't need the auto safety. Deactivating the auto safety will depend on how it is set up, and you might need the help of a gunsmith familiar with that type of mechanism. (The problem there is that many gunsmiths would balk at deactivating a safety for liability reasons! $:-\$ ) I have a Beligian-made double from the 1920's, with rebounding outside hammers AND a manual sliding safety on the tang which blocks the triggers only. The safety had the bad habit of sliding on or partially on under recoil. I removed the sideplates and drilled a small hole in the wood just in front of the safety's projection. I inserted a pin made by cutting the head and point off a nail and insterting it in the hole. This kept the safety from sliding forward. The pin can be removed in about thirty seconds or so. (I retired the gun as it is a nice piece and I was beating it up inadvertantly.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find an outisde hammer double with 32" barrels (my personal preference), and wound up with a EAA Uplander, which has the longer barrels, but is hammerless. That has an automatic safety, and I have left it alone! It doesn't take more than a fraction of a second to push it forward to the Fire position.

Bugscuffle · August 24, 2011, 03:44:41 PM

Quote from: wildman1 on August 24, 2011, 04:31:59 AM
Yep safety still works just doesn't go on every time ya open the gun. WM

I am not disputing your point that the safety will still work. Let me start from the beginning. I am talking about a shotgun that is NOT external hammer and I believe those with rebounding hammers, but I'm no 100% sure of that one.. I refer to something like the Stevens 311 with an automatic saferty and NO external hammers and the automatic safety disabled. In this instance the hammers are cocked upon opening the action. Shells are then loaded into the chambers and then the action is closed. This is the exact moment that you are in peril, the moment when the action closes and the safety is NOT engaged. Ordinarily, with the safety ON the triggers are blocked which holds the sear engaged which holds the hammers back. But, when the safety IS disabled, If the action is closed with considerable force, as in when shooting in competition, or if your finger brushes against the trigger while reaching for two more shells, the trigger(s) are then released which releases the block on the sear which releases the hammers. As long as the action is open the hammers are still held back by the cocking lever which is held back by the cocking plunger. Got it? The only thing holding back the hammers back is the fact that the action is OPEN. Now when you close the action the hammers are free to go forward with the closing action. If you do it too quickly the firing pins engage the primers and "Surprise, Surprise, Surprise Seargeant!" The gun goes off. If you don't do it that quickly, the gun is no longer cocked! What do I do now coach?

cpt dan blodgett · August 26, 2011, 12:07:15 AM

The baikal (bounty hunter II) is built like a tank. Will be very stiff, do not open as quickly, smoothly and easily as other guns out there. Will be pretty rough but most are pretty reliable out of box. Eventually they will loosen up a little. You will need to smooth chambers. I used a cleaning jag, my drill press and a chunk of scotchbright green pad on chambers.

Did I mention built like a tank and inexpensive relative term.

Plenty of folks will slick them up for you if you like vicinity 125 - 150.

Kinda like Chevys and Fords some swear by others at.

Any safety can be disabled. I just never thought it was necessary. I am timed with an hour glass or calendar so I do have the time to rember to move safety into fire position.

Harleyx2 · August 27, 2011, 04:33:17 PM

Well I shot my first match today and the way it looked I was the only person with a auto safety. LOL Didnt like the Baikal coachgun I bought so I will be selling it to buy a stoeger. It was to stiff and the extractors got in the way of loading it at the top.

baddwolf7 · August 27, 2011, 04:33:30 PM

I have a Stoeger sxs with the internal hammers and the slide safety on top. I know that they can be a pain but under advice from a good friend ( a lawyer who used to be asst.county attorney) I never disconnected the safety. by doing that you are opening yourself up to nightnares in court in case of an AD or if you have to use the said shotgun to protect yourself. I would rather loss a second or two than explain to a defence lawyer, jury and judge why I disabled a safety device. Just my 2 cents worth.

Harleyx2 · August 27, 2011, 05:27:11 PM

What would protecting yourself have to do with it. Its not like the safety is being removed from the gun. It just doesnt go on safety automaticly anymore. What other gun has auto safety other than break action shotguns? I see no need for it.

Bugscuffle · August 27, 2011, 06:23:02 PM

Quote from: Harleyx2 on August 27, 2011, 05:27:11 PM
What would protecting yourself have to do with it. Its not like the safety is being removed from the gun. It just doesnt go on safety automaticly anymore. What other gun has auto safety other than break action shotguns? I see no need for it.

Do you really believe that those twelved jury members will all be NRA members? They will not understand nor will they care. They will hear only that the fasety was disabled.

Harleyx2 · August 27, 2011, 08:15:34 PM

Wrong the safety is not disabled. The auto safety is. The safety will still work.

Bugscuffle · August 28, 2011, 01:27:16 PM

It's YOUR freedom that you are putting at risk here. What a bleeding heart jury is going to "hear" is not necessarily what the defense is going to "say". When they hear that the auto safety is DISABLED, they just may see that as a deliberate action to circumvent a safety measure on the gun, i.e. "disabled" rather than "broken". You must protect yourself from the worst case scenario. Don't assume that a jury will be reasonable or sympathetic.

LoneRider · August 28, 2011, 01:47:47 PM

Quote from: Harleyx2 on August 27, 2011, 04:33:17 PM
Well I shot my first match today and the way it looked I was the only person with a auto safety. LOL Didnt like the Baikal coachgun I bought so I will be selling it to buy a stoeger. It was to stiff and the extractors got in the way of loading it at the top.

Send it to a good Cowboy Smith. They will fix all those problems. We have 3 Bakail's love them but as all guns if you want to shoot competition with them they need some work!!

Harleyx2 · August 28, 2011, 02:37:33 PM

Bugscuffle . Do you cowboy shoot? If you do then at your next match ask how many people there have that auto safety still working. I bet theres alot more that dont work than does.

LoneRider · August 28, 2011, 04:23:43 PM

Quote from: Bugscuffle on August 28, 2011, 01:27:16 PM
It's YOUR freedom that you are putting at risk here. What a bleeding heart jury is going to "hear" is not necessarily what the defense is going to "say". When they hear that the auto safety is DISABLED, they just may see that as a deliberate action to circumvent a safety measure on the gun, i.e. "disabled" rather than "broken". You must protect yourself from the worst case scenario. Don't assume that a jury will be reasonable or sympathetic.

You gonna use your Cowboy Shotgun for self defense

???

baddwolf7 · August 28, 2011, 08:51:33 PM

I live in a very rural area with drug problems, ya dang right I would grab my sxs ifin I had time, those big ole double barrels have put the fear of the Lord in many a bad man over the years lol

Bugscuffle · August 28, 2011, 09:17:05 PM

Quote from: Harleyx2 on August 28, 2011, 02:37:33 PM
Bugscuffle . Do you cowboy shoot? If you do then at your next match ask how many people there have that auto safety still working. I bet theres alot more that dont work than does.

So what, Harley? Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do. Don't you have kids? Don't they tell you that "Everyone else is doing it!"? Dang it, 500 million Arabs want to destroy America, does that make it right? Geez O' Pete Harley grow up and do what's right, not just what's popular.

baddwolf7 · August 28, 2011, 10:07:41 PM

I was in law enforcement for 3 years and watched many trials, a good defence lawyer can confuse a jury of just about anything or a good prosecutor can get a ham sandwhich indicted for murder. Removing a safety device is a personal choice, no one can make that choice for you. As for using my cowboy guns for self defence, yep I sure would, I have a 92 I deer hunt with, I figure if I can bring down a deer I could use it to defend my home.