What the ^&*&^*&^*&^*&^*&^ Does 'Slugging the Bore Mean'?

[WaddWatsonEllis]

I am going to quote direclty from Mike Venturino's "Shooting Bufflo Rifles of the Old West":

"The .45-70 reloader should be prepared to slug the bore of his paricularrifle because they can vary immensely. I've even seen modern made .45-70 barrels go .456, .457 and .458 inch in their grooves, and it is not uncommonfor ones from the 1870s to go well over .460 inch. ...I shoot no less than half a dozen .45-70 rifles of both modern and vintage manufacture and have settled on .459 inch sizing for all my .45-70 bullets. Some of my moulds drop bullets of only .458 so they are not actually being sized at all, but others are .460 inch and the .001 sizing does not seem to harm their accuracy."

So what does this slugging mean? It is probably such a common phrase that all experienced shooters know what it means .... but this neophyte does not. So I am asking these questions ....

1.) Is this something I can do at home , with a micrometer or?

2.) Is this something better left to a gunsmith?

3.) If this is a gunsmith thing, is there one in Certral California that you might suggest?

[JimBob]

Slugging the bore consists of driving a soft lead slug through the barrel to determine the actual groove diameter of the barrel.You don't need much to do it a hammer and a suitable rod and a micrometer along with an unsized projectile around .460 diameter or a .459 round ball with some oil or light grease on it.Kind of like loading a muzzle loader sans patch.Google "slugging a barrel",several videos.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Never thought to Google it: thanks, I'll check the videos out .....

[JimBob]

This isn't really a problem unless you're shooting "old" guns.Trapdoor groove diameters can run large,vintage Sharps and Remingtons used odd groove diameters.Modern barrels in production rifles are generally all built to the same standards to use a .458 jacketed bullet.Usual rules on sizing lead projectiles a thousandth or two bigger are good to go.I know of one custom built rifle a fellow got with a .460 groove diameter,don't know the barrel maker,but he never could get that piece to shoot.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Jim Bob,

I have about $600 worth of sites to add on, so I am looking at things to keep me busy ... like slugging the barrel and getting started with reloading stuff ...

I think the first shot fired in this rifle will be after Christmas .... sigh

[Professor Marvel]

Ah My Dear Wad -

Whilst slugging your barrel is a grand idea for best accuracy, it is not absolutely necessary for initial efforts.
We see Dixie lists the specs for the Pedrsoli Remington Rolling Block barrel as:
Chambered for 45/70,
Cut rifling .004" deep with 1-22" twist,
6 lands measure .450" and 6 grooves .458.
-----------------
Inexpensive Lee molds are available to throw appropriate bullets at .457- 459 - you can easily get started at reasonable expense for shooting at a couple hundred yards and start your fun earlier. At closer ranges, one does not even need the expensive sights, which can be acquired a bit later. It is entirely possible to "go broke slowly" rather than "all at once" .


I recommend these links for some opinions:
http://www.bpcr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4094

and you may wish to correspond with Prarie Dawg, as he was also influenced by Monsieur  Venturino and trod a similar path as you a few years ago.The high priced stuff gets you into decent accuracy at the extreme range shooting  in which  Ranch13, JohnBoy and others participate - (altho a further issue is to find a range that actually offers you the capabailty of shooting beyond 400-500 yards)

http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=1673.0

this might get you started with a bit of casting & etc - with even 20 cases and one mold one can begin to get one's feet wet.

yhs
Prof Marvel

[JimBob]

Jim Bob,

I have about $600 worth of sites to add on, so I am looking at things to keep me busy ... like slugging the barrel and getting started with reloading stuff ...

Roam around this site http://www.assra.com Lots of interesting stuff to be found on the Member Forums.

[Old Top]

Wadd,

If you need reloaded ammo I have some 45-70 loaded with 3031 and a 405 grain lead round for trapdoor, I will be semi close to your area at the end of the month.  Let me know.

Old Top

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Old Top,

It is very kind of you to offer the ammo; but I woud be happy to share some Starbucks time with you .... and so we don't bore everyone with the details, let me know when you will be near in a PM (or my email is on my profile) ...


Professor Marvel,

AS usual, thanks for the reply and the sites ... it looks like I will be very busy tonight!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Here's another reference.  Shorter than some others;

http://www.wahsatchdesperadoes.com/Intro_to_BPCR_Loading.pdf

[Ranch 13]

For the most part if you go with a .459 or better yet a .460 diameter bullet in your Pedersoli you'll get along pretty well.

[Montana Slim]

For the most part if you go with a .459 or better yet a .460 diameter bullet in your Pedersoli you'll get along pretty well.

I'll second that advice 

Most important, you'll want to know the twist rate. Some of the earlier production RB's had a twist of 1-20"
That means 1-turn in 20 inches of barrel length. More recent guns have 1-18" as does my Pedersoli Sharps (c. 1997)

Assuming your rifle has a 1-18" twist you'd be advised to use a 500 + grain slug for best accuracy.

I don't recommend the Lee molds IF you'll be shooting real BP (as these rifles/cartridges were designed), I had one..doesn't carry enough lube. A good starter bullet is the Lyman Government profile (Round nose), 500 grain. Might want to bump up to the Postell - around 230 grains.

Early on, I switched to the Lyman Gov't profile 500 & am still using it.

Slim

[Marshal Deadwood]

Early on, I switched to the Lyman Gov't profile 500 & am still using it.

That is my favorite bullet to cast and shoot. Both my Sharps (Shiloh 56-70, and a Pedersoli 45-70) love them. I've taken several deer with this bullet.

MD

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Marshall Deadwood,


That bullet sounds like where I want to go ... but right now I am trying to find the nearly $500 needed to get the rear sight (I have actually ordered and paid for a combination bubble level/globe front sight).  I hope to get the project finished just in time to have it under the Christmas tree ... and I think the time to start thinking about reloading is around Thanksgiving ...

I actually have a tentative  shoot arranged with my FFL (Who shoots a 'modern' .50 cal sniper's rifle) for sometime between Christmas and New Years ... I imagine the anticipation will make it seem even more fun

Now if I could just learn how to read a Vernier scale .... LOL

[Otter]

OK Waddy, I'm back  . . .

The first two molds I got were the Lyman 457193 (405 gr RNFP) and the 457125 (500 gr RN - the bullet the guys above are touting). The 457193 is good for out to about 500+/- yards, the 457125 is a good bullet design and is good for the longer ranges (as well as shorter shooting). I have used the 457125 exclusively for the last 13 or 14 years in my BPCR rifles. The 457193 has been relegated to use in my 45-70 Marlin 1895 Cowboy. Both bullets have taken deer (one a 230# whitetail) and the 457125 felled my only buffalo. There are lots of different bullet designs/molds available, off the shelf and customs, but it is very hard to argue with the 45 cal 500 gr Gov't bullet's longevity and history. Big grease gooves to carry lube all the way to the muzzle, easy to cast and they hit hard. My mold drops them at .458 to .459 with a 30:1 alloy. I like the 457125 for anything I have used it for.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Marshall Deadwood,



Now if I could just learn how to read a Vernier scale .... LOL

Take your pick of how to's;

http://toolbar.inbox.com/search/results.aspx?tp=pts&src=pts&tbid=80142&q=How+to+read+a+vernier+scale

[cpt dan blodgett]

Do not have any .460 balls.  Reckon a .490 would work.
Do have my short starter for ML to get the thing started.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Interesting ..... if you used a .490 cal ball and needed only .460 cal, that would mean almost .030 would need to be removed in order to get a good fit .... send me a PM and let me know how it goes!

[JimBob]

Interesting ..... if you used a .490 cal ball and needed only .460 cal, that would mean almost .030 would need to be removed in order to get a good fit .... send me a PM and let me know how it goes!

LOL Bigger hammer!

[cpt dan blodgett]

On the bright side it is only .015 per side.  We are talking soft lead 50 cal ML Balls