Creating the Plainsmen Persona stage 1

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

Just trying to get a conversation going and some insight into creating the Plainsmen Persona.

The Plainsmen time period is 1840 - 1865.  Now comes the work of deciding on a person to depict and what items that person would have had and used.

The plainsman would have been a minimalist at best. 

My persona is of a part breed Cherokee that came west in the 1830's and the roots of the persona would have been a poor person at best. Indian Police, Buffalo hunter, Scout and Wanderer. 

When I stand in that place and time and try too view the life, I try to eliminate modern day thinking and standards.

What was Is.

The other day, I had my favorite shirt on and it finally fell apart.  Dang, things sure do not last like they use too.  My wife asked me how long I had that shirt.  After much thought and consideration I realized that I had owned and worn that shirt close to 20 years.

This got me to thinking and looking at different items that I have and use.  I own a rifle that my father had built in the 1930's.  A hunting knife that was handed down from my Grandfather as well as a pocket watch.

This is reality while living in a world that has created a throw away mentality.  How many hand me down items would a person have had and used during a time when people did not own much, did not have a steady supply of new items readily at hand.

Women learned to make shirts, pants, coats and dresses from patterns handed down from their mothers and grandmothers. 

When choosing items and articles of clothing for the Plainsmen persona should we be looking only at items that were popular during that period?  Perhaps we should also look at "what was, Is.

Your insight and wisdom on this matter would be much appreciated.

[bowiemaker]

There were a couple of permanent settlements in the west during that period as well as trading posts and annual rendezvous. Fort Bridger and it's trading post was established in 1843 in the Wyoming Territory (then part of Utah Territory). The Mormons settled in the area in 1847. By 1845 prospectors were heading to California to find gold. My point is that there were goods available and I suspect that, at least as far as clothing, people would at least make an annual purchase for some new duds just as the cowboys later tended to do after the cattle drives when they arrived in town with some money to spend.

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

There were a couple of permanent settlements in the west during that period as well as trading posts and annual rendezvous. Fort Bridger and it's trading post was established in 1843 in the Wyoming Territory (then part of Utah Territory). The Mormons settled in the area in 1847. By 1845 prospectors were heading to California to find gold. My point is that there were goods available and I suspect that, at least as far as clothing, people would at least make an annual purchase for some new duds just as the cowboys later tended to do after the cattle drives when they arrived in town with some money to spend.

Good point on the availability of goods.  I wonder if the average to poor folks would have tended to buy new duds or just material to make their own?

Would most of the plainsmen have wore store bought, homemade cloth or used hides to make a lot of their clothing like coats, pants etc. I think it would probably have been a combination.

[bowiemaker]

It was probably a combination. Not all were that poor. I have read that a good fur trapper could make as much as a couple thousand dollars at a rendezvous and then blow the whole wad by the time he left. This was at a time when a skilled carpenter might make $1.50 per day.

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

It was probably a combination. Not all were that poor. I have read that a good fur trapper could make as much as a couple thousand dollars at a rendezvous and then blow the whole wad by the time he left. This was at a time when a skilled carpenter might make $1.50 per day.

Bowiemaker, the combination was what I felt was probably correct.  I think it was probably a pretty patch work period especially during the early period before the Civil war.  Most of the trading posts of any size would have been along the Oregon or Santa Fe trail.  There were of course the stores or trading posts that would spring up any place numbers of folks lived.

What got me to wondering about this was reading about the amount of homespun clothing the south wore at the beginning of the Civil War.  If homespun was that popular, how much would new fashion have entered into the normal day to day wear.  Pictures of the day were usually folks that were more affluent and also wearing their Sunday going to meeting clothes.

[St. George]

Rather than attempting to reinvent the wheel, I'll point out a salient fact.

All of these questions have been addressed previously in the 'Historical Society' forum, the 'Old Fashioned Way' forum, and of course, the 'NCOWS' forums, albeit with some duplication.

Looking through those forums various 'back pages' will give you not only more information, but period references and sutler/supplier names, as well.

Good Luck!

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

Rather than attempting to reinvent the wheel, I'll point out a salient fact.

All of these questions have been addressed previously in the 'Historical Society' forum, the 'Old Fashioned Way' forum, and of course, the 'NCOWS' forums, albeit with some duplication.

Looking through those forums various 'back pages' will give you not only more information, but period references and sutler/supplier names, as well.

Good Luck!

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

St George, My old eyes have failed me more than once but I think they have rolled over and died this time.  Where is the Old Fashioned Way' forum?

[St. George]

TwoWalks,

It's a child board falling under the 'Historical Society' forum - right at the top.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

TwoWalks,

It's a child board falling under the 'Historical Society' forum - right at the top.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

Thanks you St George, told ya these old eyes had died.

Would ask for a little more assistance please.  My point and question for this thread was "how much and what types of gear would the early plainsman have used from an earlier period?"  I have looked high and low on the NCOWS and the Historical Society forums and seem to be missing the previous discussions.  Perhaps I am searching too literal.  Could you point me to a couple of the discussions?

Thanks TwoWalks

[St. George]

I'll post one of my 'St. George's Notes' on building the Impression, and will see what more I can provide - but keep in mind that it'll deal primarily with the beginner.

The Time-Life series - 'The Old West' - has a myriad of pictures readily at hand at your local Public Library.

I suggest anyone with an interest in the 'real' Old West check them out.

The West of the time was being rapidly settled - supplies and dry goods were readily available in towns, since the railroad was pushing Westward rapidly, and what the railroad didn't bring in - riverboats did - with freighting outfits being a key player of the times.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[St. George]

This 'Note' can act as a guideline as you create your earlier Impression.

Good Luck!

Scouts Out!

**********

St. George's Notes XIII - The Impression(2.0)...
« on: February 02, 2005, 10:06:13 am »      

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Creating your persona is important to an accurate portrayal of the times and a good way to honor those in your family who went before.

It also allows you to concentrate and learn about specifics, and can save you some money as you put your Impression together properly - leaving frivolous purchases for later on.

I was lucky in having some interesting ancestors to draw from, as my forebears actually were soldiers, gamblers, gunfighters and lawmen - with nary a storekeeper in the lot.

My GG Grandfather rode with the 2d Iowa Volunteer Cavalry as a Corporal.
My GG Uncle rode with DeBray's 5th Independent Texas Cavalry as a Captain.
My G Uncle rode with G Troop - 1st Volunteer Cavalry (yeah - 'that' G Troop - TR's).

My own career has been spent in Combat Arms units - Airborne and Special Ops mostly - I commanded a Cavalry Squadron for The First Team, after I commanded an Infantry Battalion in The Big Red One - having first started out as a Rifleman and later - a Hard-Stripe E6 in a Paratroop outfit about 35 years ago.
I was retiring out of SOCOM when recalled...

Here's a thumbnail sketch - from the top of my head - and it hits the high points - allowing you to build upon it - fleshing out the Posts and the towns nearby - even the Saloons and the Dry Goods and Saddlers.

Why?

Because to make it more authentic - some of your equipment is going to have come from them.

For example - my saddle-shaped watch fob is from J.H.Haney & Company - a noted saddler from Omaha and first active in 1888, while my cigar case and a pocket knife both come from Union Stock Yards Company/South Omaha - that started in 1884.
These were places I'd have done business with or known men who did.

Retired, long-serving Cavalry Officer...
Served since the Civil War, when I rode with the 2d Iowa Volunteer Cavalry as a Trooper, in Sheridan's Cavalry Corps, from 1863 on.
Rode under Grierson, cutting telegraph and railroad lines near Vicksburg.
Brevetted to Major.
Chased Forrest, helped repel Hood in Tennessee.
Stayed in after the War and went West (with a company-grade rank) and fought throughout the Indian Wars - Apache, Comanche, Cheyenne, Ute and Nez Perce' Campaigns - rode with and later commanded a squadron in the 5th Cavalry.
Entered the Retired List out of the Headquarters for the Department of the Platte, at Omaha Barracks, where I served on Departmental Staff - in 1896 as Lieutenant Colonel, Cavalry.

Now, that's 'my' Impression.

Yours may vary widely - especially if you don't have a Military background and have picked another type of character to portray.

For example:

Let's say that you pick a Working Cowboy...

What you'd have in your pockets or in your vest would depend upon what your character would have and his station in life.

You may have to decide how educated you might be - you may not be able to read, write, or do sums.
If you can - you might want to carry a pencil and maybe a Tally Book, so you can keep track of stock and such for the Brand you're riding for this season.

The pencil would not have an eraser - you'd 'erase' with a knife blade - or cross through.

No pen, though, as the technology hadn't quite made it to that stage.
Pen and ink were found in desks.

You'd probably want some education though, and might have a McGuffy's Primer in your saddlebags - that you've gotten from the new Schoolmarm...

If you've been paid, some 'hard' cash - coinage in the form of both American and most likely Mexican would be in your pockets - paper wasn't quite as trusted back then, but greenbacks and shinplasters were also common, as was Army Scrip.
You may not have much money - since your pay goes to keeping up you - your outfit, and once in awhile - paying off your bunkhouse poker debts.

There might be a Bill of Sale for your horse - stuck inside your billfold (a simple fold-over thin leather case - similar in construction to a modern checkbook cover).

You wouldn't need a Pocket Watch - since you could tell time fairly accurately by the Sun.
Anyway - maybe the Ramrod would have one - maybe not - but if he did, it'd be a solid one - most likely a Turnip" - because they were pretty strongly-built -the more expensive having the closable "Hunter Case" and the less expensive the open face.
But then, not every man would own one - they could be pricey for a working cowboy and weren't as tough as needed, and besides, there was usually the one that the Ramrod had.

If you're using a pocket watch, then there were watch fobs and charms as well as watch chains - the fobs being anything from an Elk's Tooth to an advertising fob from a harness maker to a spent Minie' bullet that glanced off your cartridge box at Shiloh, and you kept for Good Luck
If you carried such a thing - a Watch Fob from a local business on a strap would be appropriate.

A carbon-steel-bladed pocket knife might be in order - wood or bone handles being quite common and any of the good English makers (some German as well) were common - I*XL being well thought of.
It would probably be a single-bladed knife, though two-bladed pen knives were quite common and they got that name because they were small enough to cut quills for writing.
A hoof knife was a large knife - it being the Multiplier of the day, so it would be found in the saddlebags

Let's say you were good at your job...

You'd want to show that fact off a bit - so your spurs would be top-notch as would your saddle.
Maybe a pair of Buermann's Gal-Leg spurs - or later on,  McChesneys - or - of you're in the Southwest - a good pair of Mexican-made ones from the big Trade Fairs in Chihuahua - with jingle-bobs, so the 'town folk' would know you're comin', with your straps let out to the 'town hole' to add to the music.
The saddle - well - that's going to take some money - but once you've got a good one - it'll advertise to one and all that they're looking at a "Top Hand"...

You'll carry Tobacco - in one or more of its many forms - as most men of the time used it.
If that's the case - you'll want a Match Safe for your "Strike-Anywhere" Lucifers and your little bag of makin's - Bull Durham - or some of that black Mexican tobacco -  and some papers(non-adhesive) or cut and scraped corn shucks - so's you could roll a smoke.
They didn't call 'em "quirlys" for nothing.
Maybe a plug of chaw will be in a vest pocket as well - or cigars.
Perhaps a pipe as well - because tobacco could still be smoked if no papers or cornshucks were available
Snuff came loose back then and was carried in small horn boxes with lids - some silver-mounted and engraved.

And - if you're just a Button - maybe a couple of Peppermints, since you're not quite used to smoking, yet.
And even if you're not a Button - you'd still have a sweet tooth... and might have a pair of reading glasses inside your vest

There may even be a small flask inside a vest pocket - especially for a gambler - or a 'sport' - and even a deck of pasteboards.

You can see how the creation of an historically accurate Impression can involve a bit of thought - but once given - and with some access to decent references - it's easy to create what you're after.

The list goes on - again depending on your character - and quality varies.

A working cowboy never had much money, but when he could, he'd buy what would give the most value for his dollar, and that thing may not be the prettiest in the hardware or drygoods store - just the most durable.
A townsman would have more opportunity to buy "the latest thing" and so on.
A big part of the overall enjoyment of NCOWS is the peripheral history


Good Luck.

Scouts Out!  

 

[Tascosa Joe]

If you live in an area that has a used book store the Time-Life books run from $5-10.  David Lavenders Bents Fort Book, has always been concidered the "Bible" for the fort and trade on the Sante Fe Trail.  Susan McGoffins' book about her journey as a newly wed, down the Sante Fe Trail to El Paso, gives a pretty good insite as to equipment available in the late 1840's.  Of course she was wealthy and would have a lot of the finer items of life.   
Once, I did a contrast of the adobe architecture, between Bent's Fort, Susan McGoffins house in El Paso, and the 1880's anglecized adobe houses in Lincoln, New Mexico.  It was interesting to see the changes from 1834 to 1881.  If you are ever in El Paso go see Susan's house, I think you will enjoy the afternoon. 

T-Joe

[JimBob]

TWBs question is about a subject that is only in the last few years been the subject of a lot of study.It's termed "material culture".Goods of all sort in the 1840-1860 period were coming up the Mississippi to St.Louis,many imported,and going west in large amounts.Stuff wears out living a hard life clothing in particular.Some have mentioned "homespun".How common would this have been in that period and area?Producing homespun would have required the ability to raise a crop of flax or cotton or have sufficent sheep to produce the wool. TWBs persona likely had some articles of clothing made from hides but the cloth items more than likely were storebought either as cloth or a finished piece of clothing.

A book I recently saw that looked interesting,but haven't purchased(yet ) is "The Great Northwest Fur Trade,a material culture-1763-1850.It appears to be well illustrated which would make it interesting to see how styles and goods changed over the years.

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

St George thank you for that post.  Sorry I mis-understood what you were trying to point me too.  I actually have a copy of your material for creating a persona that I have printed out for others in our group.  Thank you again for taking the time to post that and your insight. 

TWBs persona likely had some articles of clothing made from hides but the cloth items more than likely were store bought either as cloth or a finished piece of clothing.

JimBob, you hit it on the head.  Not only for my persona but for any number of folks during that time frame. I think I may be anal with my thinking and just not looking at it in a general way.  What I was thinking was the "cloth" idea.  If I got some material and handed to my wife in 1845 and said "Make me a new shirt and yourself a new dress."  Would my wife make the design she had always made and probably learned from her mother or would she have worried about the new current style?  For the majority I would suggest buying a shirt today in a style that was popular at that time.  So there is really my own answer.

Having said that.  My own persona of a Cherokee during the 1850 - 1865 period, it is simpler and perhaps more complicated. There were wealthy Cherokee, that wore the latest fashions.  There were Cherokee that wore a mix of modern and older fashion and there were some Cherokee determined to hold onto the old ways and beliefs and chose to wear strictly Cherokee clothing including the turban.  That means I really have multiple items that I can mix and match at will.  I can create a pre-civil war fashion and a post civil war fashion for two totally different looks.

As a general view, there would have been plainsmen that came from the east or areas west that would have worn current fashion.  There were also mountain men that became plainsmen that would have kept wearing styles they were use too and then of course the mountain men that went into the Santa Fe area and adopted those styles.

This period was not only an exciting time of change but it would have probably also been a very fluid time for style as well.  Really looking forward to doing more study of the time period and the people.

[RickB]

I'm probably off base here but isn't this time period already covered by the mountain man groups?

Also, I think NCOWS has rules that state your persona should be for a person between 1866 and 1899. I don't know about SASS and their period of acceptance. I'm not sure a period dress of the period in question would be allowed in NCOWS since it is outside of the dates in our rules.

Correct me if I am incorrect.

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

I'm probably off base here but isn't this time period already covered by the mountain man groups?

Also, I think NCOWS has rules that state your persona should be for a person between 1866 and 1899. I don't know about SASS and their period of acceptance. I'm not sure a period dress of the period in question would be allowed in NCOWS since it is outside of the dates in our rules.

Correct me if I am incorrect.

The period covered by the Mountain man groups ends 1840. Ncows begins as you stated in 1866.  Enter the new "The American Plainsmen Society". The loved but forgotten period.

[JimBob]

LOL Seems like some folks are having a hard time of understanding the idea of a group from the period after the mountain men and before the cowboys old west scenario.C'mon guys,the gold rush,wagon train scouts,the great migration west,the mormon migration,opening up of the South West and California,it was the heyday of the U.S.Dragoons and Mounted Rifles,the Mexican War,border ruffians galore,titled Englishmen on sport hunts on the plains.The sun set of the Hawken rifle and fur trade and start of them new fangled breech loading guns,the guns that turned Sam Colt into a manufacturing powerhouse,settlers driving west and those who guided them,bleeding Kansas.Give a thought to the Pony Express.While Frederick Remington is best known for his pictures of cowboys and soldiers of the post Civil War era he did a picture titled "The Coming and Going of the Pony Express",you can find it on the net,great picture of what the rough and ready for anything type might be apt to wear.

If my legs wasn't failing me this is the group I could get really high on.

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

LOL Seems like some folks are having a hard time of understanding the idea of a group from the period after the mountain men and before the cowboys old west scenario.C'mon guys,the gold rush,wagon train scouts,the great migration west,the mormon migration,opening up of the South West and California,it was the heyday of the U.S.Dragoons and Mounted Rifles,the Mexican War,border ruffians galore,titled Englishmen on sport hunts on the plains.The sun set of the Hawken rifle and fur trade and start of them new fangled breech loading guns,the guns that turned Sam Colt into a manufacturing powerhouse,settlers driving west and those who guided them,bleeding Kansas.Give a thought to the Pony Express.While Frederick Remington is best known for his pictures of cowboys and soldiers of the post Civil War era he did a picture titled "The Coming and Going of the Pony Express",you can find it on the net,great picture of what the rough and ready for anything type might be apt to wear.

If my legs wasn't failing me this is the group I could get really high on.

JimBob, probably my fault.  I do not think folks are having a hard time, it is the way I phrased my question.  I was looking at a very early time and persona of a person that was living in the Oklahoma area and then tried to post the question in general terms.  I think that made it confusing for folks.

Love the description of the plainsmen area and your right, I think it was the most exciting time.

Found the picture thanks for the heads up on that.  I did not realize Remington ever painted that.

TwoWalks

[Jake MacReedy]

Well, here's the beginnings of one of my personae (revised):

It's 1848.  I'm 58 years old, which makes me a VERY old man at that time!  But I've lived my life outdoors, in the "wilds" and have learned to take care of myself quite well.  I've spanned the era of flintlock rifles and muskets, on down to new-fangled Colt's revolvers and such.  I was born in what would become Southern Indiana in 1790...was just a welp when the Ohio Country wars erupted in the 1790's.  In the War of 1812, I served with the militia in the Ohio Country, fighting against the Shawnee and their British allies.  After that, I headed west, finally winding up in Texas.  Served with Bowie's forces in the taking of Bexar in December, 1835, but missed out on that little fracas at the Alamo in March of the next year...I was off with Major Williamson's Ranging Company, chasing after some Comanches up the Colorado River from Bastrop.  Stayed with the Rangers after Independence, and fought in a number of engagements with the Kiowa and Comanche, ranging all the way into the LLano Estacado.  Thought about retiring to a little ranch east of Austin, but was called back to "help out" the Rangers during the Mexican-American War.  Now, the war is over, and Texas is now part of the United States. I'm still of scouting, with my trusty Colt's Dragoon and Bowie knife, and my good ol' Kentucky rifle that I had the barrel "freshened" out to .50 caliber.  Also had that ol' Kentuck converted over from a firelock to them fancy new-fangled percussion caps...now I don't have to worry about the winds blowin' away my primin' charge!  And that Colt's Revolver...Heaven's sake, man!...that thing'll blow a Comanch right off his horse at 60 paces easy!

Jake

(Please remember!  I am writing this from the perspective of someone who lived on the Texas frontier in the 1840's...his perspective was vastly different from what yours may be today!)

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

Well, here's the beginnings of my persona:

It's 1848.  I'm 58 years old, which makes me a VERY old man at that time!  But I've lived my life outdoors, in the "wilds" and have learned to take care of myself quite well.  I've spanned the era of flintlock rifles and muskets, on down to new-fangled Colt's revolvers and such.  I was born in what would become Southern Indiana in 1790...was just a welp when the Ohio Country wars erupted in the 1790's.  In the War of 1812, I served with the militia in the Ohio Country, fighting against the Shawnee and their British allies.  After that, I headed west, finally winding up in Texas.  Served with Bowie's forces in the taking of Bexar in December, 1835, but missed out on that little fracas at the Alamo in March of the next year...I was off with Major Williamson's Ranging Company, chasing after some Comanches up the Colorado River from Bastrop.  Stayed with the Rangers after Independence, and fought in a number of engagements with the Kiowa and Comanche, ranging all the way into the LLano Estacado.  Thought about retiring to a little ranch east of Austin, but was called back to "help out" the Rangers during the Mexican-American War.  Now, the war is over, and Texas is now part of the United States. I'm still of scouting, with my trusty Colt's Dragoon and Bowie knife, and my good ol' Kentucky rifle that I had the barrel "freshened" out to .50 caliber.  I also have a "Brown Bess" I took from a Mexican soldier, that I cut the barrel down on to use as a "scatter gun."

Jake

And a good beginning it is.