.56-50 brass check

[ndnchf]

Since .56-50 Starline brass is sold out everywhere I've looked, I email Starline and asked when the next production run would be.  Here is their response:

"Sorry we do not have a date as to when we will do a run of the 56-50 cases. Please check back in a couple of months.

Thank You
Debbie Customer Service"

Needless to say, I'm disappointed in their answer   With a new Taylors .56-50 Infantry rifle due to arrive next month, i seem to be in a fix for the appropriate Starline brass.

if anyone can spare a few, I'd be happy to buy some.

Thanks,
Steve

[Two Flints]

This is what Starline has posted on their web site.

56-50 Spencer (Taylor's) Brass (Large Rifle primer) 1.151"-1.157

Backordered expected availability: NEXT RUN WHEN SUFFICIENT BACKORDER ACHIEVED )      

The 56-50 Spencer (Taylor's) was built to C.I.P. specifications for operation in the Taylor Arms 56-50 Spencer. Rim diameter is .629" to .632", which may be too small to eject properly in some originals. Rim thickness is .057" to .061". Thickness of wall at mouth is .0125" average. Case mouth may need to be annealed if not sealing properly with low pressure loads. Maximum bullet seating depth is .375".

MIDWAY ON-LINE CATALOG
Starline Brass 56-50 SpencerProduct #: 311437Manufacturer #: 56-50 Spencer (20)Product Family #: 941184648
5 stars Read Reviews (2) Write a Review
Box of:
100
20100Finish:
Brass
BrassSelect: Box of, Finish  20; Brass; Out of Stock, No Backorder; $28.99 100; Brass; Out of Stock, No Backorder; $108.99
Status:Out of Stock, No Backorder
Date expected in stock: 8/9/2011
$108.99

GRAf & Sons & TRACK OF THE WOLF is also back ordered 56-50 Starline Brass:

Have you tried   HUNTINGTON DIE SPECIALTIES ??  
CALL RHEM AT: 1-866-735-6237    
Items 56-50 Spencer Starline brass cartridge rifle cases for the discriminating handloader.  
$26.98 x  = $26.98  






Two Flints

[PvtGreg]

No good at HUNTINGTON's - I just called (3:30pm CDT)

[ndnchf]

Thanks guys.  I've been looking pretty hard, but coming up empty.  There are a couple boxes of loaded ammo on Gunbroker, but they are pretty pricey.  One listing is with TenX brass.  Does anyone know if this brass is for originals or Taylors?

I have some extra .50-95 Jamison and TenX brass for my 1876 Winchester that may work with some cutting, trimming and sizing.  I also have some Starline .50 Alaskan brass.  The head diameter on all 3 are .445" - .455" as is.    The rim diameter are as follows:

Jaminson .50-95: .625"
TenX .50-95: .615"
Starline .50 Alaskan: .603"

This .50-95 brass was pretty pricey, so I don't want to cut up a lot of it, but would use some.  The .50 Alaskan is pretty cheap, but the rim may be too small.  Hmmmm what do you guys think?

[Two Flints]

This info is from a former? member of SSS, but one who knows his Spencer loads.  This is posted to answer Ndnchf's question about Ten-X ammo and Taylor's Spencers.   Thanks T.L.  Two Flints

Ten-X is great ammo.  They helped Taylor's with the development of the modern 56-50 for Armisport.  I used their ammo (as well as my reloads) in the article I wrote for the cowboy Chronicle about the 56-50 Taylor's.  Here is an excerpt from my original draft:

...Loads Used:
1)   37.5 grains (volume) Triple 7 w/ 350 grn, .512 diameter Ken's Ten-X bullet:  Starline brass,
               CCI Magnum Rifle Primer (about 1,250 fps)
2)   KEN'S TEN-X 350 grain Smokeless (about 1,300 fps)
3)   KEN'S TEN-X 350 grain Black Powder Substitute (about 1,100 fps)

At The Range:

I managed to break free from about 20+ hours of work on the ranch one weekend and shoot the Taylor's Spencer 56-50 for the first time.  I used Ken's TEN-X loads and my BP substitute (Triple 7) loads. I set up at 25 yards, as I have lost my spectacles and can't see well at distances without them.  It would not be a fair test. The first groups were uniformly to the left, so I adjusted the rear sight for windage.  After I got the Spencer  dialed in, I shot for group size.

Ken's BP substitute loads were fairly tame.  The best group I got with them was a 1 1/4" group, dead on point of aim at 25 yards.  His smokeless loads were noticeably stiffer, but shot a decent 1 3/4" group, though they shot about 2-3" left of the BP substitute loads, but at the same level.

My Triple 7 loads were the best. The Best group with them was 1" center to center, 2" above point of aim, dead in the middle of the bulls-eye.  They were as stout as the smokeless, but no signs of excessive
pressure.

This is fairly decent, as the trigger pull is about 9-10 lbs and the sun was just starting to shine into my eyes. All of these loads were good enough for close in.  When I get a new pair of glasses, I will try it at 50 and 100 yards.  The only modification I made prior to shooting was to open the rear sight up a might for a faster acquisition of sight picture.....

...I then used the Spencer in single shot mode for the Plainsmen event, shooting clean. I single loaded each shot from the top, al-la 1870's cavalry style.  In the Plainsman Match, I used Ken's Ten-X BP loads. I also used the 56-50 Taylors as a main match rifle (with the posse leader's blessing) on several stages, also shooting clean.  It was a great week-end for Taylor's .56-50
Spencers!

Also see this link. http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,14525.msg184397/topicseen.html#msg184397

Two Flints

[ndnchf]

Thanks Two Flints, that answers that question.

[ndnchf]

Thanks to a couple helpful pards, i now have a set of CH4D A/S .56-50  dies and 100 rounds of beautiful brand new Starline brass    I already had a Rapine 350T mould, a Lyman 515139 mould and am emailling with Dakota Widowmaker about one of his cutdown Lee molds.   Now all I need is for my rifle to arrive

[Jan Buchwald]

56-50 (and 50-70) can be made of Magtech 32 brass shotshell. They are a little narrower at the rim

[PvtGreg]

Are you talking about the regular spencer or the Armisport?  If you talking about the armisport can you provide some more details?

Thanks!

[Jan Buchwald]

I have a 1865 Burnside built Spencer carbine, with a S&S centerfire breech block.
If you shorten 32 brass shotshels, and anneal them, you can size them in a standard 56-50 die.

[ndnchf]

jbw,

Could you give us the rim thickness and diameter, and the diameter at the head (just in front of the rim?  What type of primers do these 32 gauge shellls take?
Thanks

[JimBob]

  What type of primers do these 32 gauge shellls take?
Thanks

Large Pistol.

[PvtGreg]

It they're standard 32 ga then they should be ok rim wise.  I ordered a box and will let you all know.  I bet there might be some resizing issues as well.

If this works then it would be nice to have another avenue other than Starline.

[JimBob]

The wall thickness of the shotgun casings is less than the regular Star Line casings.Any issues with holding the bullet in the casing or crimping using the shotgun casings?Has anyone tried a 32 guage plastic hull.they're available from Grafs about $15 a hundred primed with 209 primers?

[PvtGreg]

No good on the plastic cases, I've tried many permutations.  Basically the plastic hulls are too easy to deform.

[Jan Buchwald]

Rim thickness: 0.059" (1.62 mm),  Dia, rim: 0.633" (16.08mm), dia, in front of rim: 0.567" (14.42mm).
Because of the design of the buttom, and the wall thickness, the contain 5 grs more powder.
I have had no problems crimping them to a LEE shortened bullet, (.515-400).

Using 50-70 (shortened) Starline, I had to regrind the tip of the expander die (RCBS) because of the wall thickness

[ndnchf]

Thanks jbw.  I'll be interested to hear how they work in pvtgreg's armisport.

[PvtGreg]

Keep in mind jbw is using a classic Spencer, which has a larger rim diameter than the armisport.

32 ga shells have the correct diameter so I'm betting the brass 32's might work in the armisport. 

I'll let you all know.

[ndnchf]

I just measured 3 of the new Starline brass I just got for comparison.  They measure:

Rim diameter; .630"
Rim thickness: .058"
Just ahead of the rim: .559"
Case wall thickness at the mouth: .012"

So the 32 ga shells are:
.003 larger rim diameter
.001" thicker rim
.008" larger ahead of the rim

Case wall difference at the mouth?  I dont have the 32 ga measurement, but I checked some magtech 12ga brass shells I have and they are .012" at the mouth also.  If the 32ga are the same, then there is no difference between them and the Starline.

With full length resizing, it seems like the 32 ga shells would work in an Armisport.  But only time will tell.

[PvtGreg]

The plastic 32s that Sean Thorton uses work if you resize them all the way to the rim, so I think these will as well.