Military snaps for 1911 Tanker Rig?

will ghormley · July 25, 2011, 07:15:21 PM

Hey, does anyone know where you can get the old military, spring-loaded metal snaps that were used on everything from canteen covers to the 1911 Tanker Rigs?

I'm thinkin' about doin' a 100th Anniversary pattern pack for the 1911. It would include the military Tanker Rig, the military Belt Holster, some cowboy holsters for the gun, and some conceal-carry belt holsters. But before I commit myself to the project, I want to know if those military snaps are readily available. Most folks could make do with Sam Brown Buttons, (and would be included as a ready alternative), but I'd like to know where I can get the real deal.

So, if you have any idea, sing out!
Thanks,
Will

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · July 25, 2011, 11:35:04 PM

Like this, Will?

http://www.dotfasteners.com/lift_the_dot.html

outrider · July 26, 2011, 07:30:12 AM

They are called "Lift - a - dot" snaps available through DOT fasteners

outrider · July 26, 2011, 07:33:03 AM

Will,

Sent you a message (email)

will ghormley · July 26, 2011, 08:09:13 AM

Thanks Guys! That's what I'm lookin' for. You guys are the greatest. I love this forum.

Hey Outrider, I just shot you off an email. Thanks!

Will

will ghormley · July 26, 2011, 04:43:39 PM

OK, now another couple of questions.

What are the wire hooks that hold the holster to the web belts called, and where do you get those?

Also, what sort of modern holsters for the 1911 are you guys lookin' to make. I don't have much use for those new-fangled popguns and their holsters, so I'm in the dark on this one.

Thanks again guys!
Will

St. George · July 26, 2011, 05:04:04 PM

They were the 'Hook, Belt, M1910'.

You can replicate them from brass rod quite easily - all you need is an original to copy.

Be advised that many of the originals used for holsters also were inside a short, brass tube that did two things - gave a greater surface for the leather to bear against, and allowed some greater flexibility to the carry of the piece.

Look at a 'good' old M1916 Hip Holster - a WWII Boyt - they're inside there - but on an original, they may be verdigris'd in place and darkened to almost invisibility.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

Slowhand Bob · July 26, 2011, 05:57:40 PM

I am having problems with links and posts vanishing into cyber twilight zone so bear with me on this umpteenth time if multiples suddenly show up.
I see a few traditional early western deep pouch designs, similar to the Stohlman Holsters book pattern. At least as popular are what looks like military surplus/clones designs. Most popular are the competition style rigs. Chuck posted a nice looking 1911 rig on here that actually looked to be a competitive style holster. Perhaps someone can revive the photos. I would say that the two most popular rigs are the Kirkpatrick http://www.kirkpatrickleather.com/product/h_wbr.html and the Mernickle Evil Roy http://www.mernickleholsters.com/er/bm_erwb.html . There are a lot of makers doing these cut down models and I have one similar to the one I posted here awhile back. http://sports.webshots.com/slideshow/578770965DQXhXt The holster is somewhat similar to the Kirkpatrick but the double mag pouch is different from any others I have seen. This style allows them to be made up and wet fit as singles, without special molding, and simply riveted to a belt slide, so simple a caveman can do it. The newest ones are closed on the back, hiding the construction. Shot shell slides do seem to have some popularity with the WB shooters. These links should give ideas of what is being made. If you like I can send a copy of my most recent patterns for you to use as you see fit.

Dave54 · July 26, 2011, 08:36:47 PM

Hi Wil
Sent a PM on M1916 holster.

Dave 54

will ghormley · July 26, 2011, 09:35:20 PM

Hey St. George, Bob, Dave,

Thanks for all the helpful input. I did find a supply of hook, belt, 1910s.

Dave, I got your photos of the 1912 & 1916 holster. They were very intriguing, but I'm afraid I couldn't put the pieces together. It looks like there would have to be a lot of directions with that holster. I may have to have you give me a class.

If anyone has detailed photos of original holsters, things like close-ups of stitching, construction, hardware, I would like to see some photos of the original holsters.

Thanks guys. You are all bein' very helpful!
Will

St. George · July 26, 2011, 09:59:42 PM

They 'are' kinda labor-intensive.

The M1912 (Cavalry) and M1916 also have a leather-covered wooden block sewn into place inside the holster body.

That allowed the butt to project outward somewhat and afford both greater comfort and an easier drawing of the piece.

Best of Luck!

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

will ghormley · July 28, 2011, 10:06:08 AM

Thanks for the insight St. George. This 1911 pattern pack is lookin' thicker all the time!

Will

Slowhand Bob · July 28, 2011, 11:27:51 AM

AH, perhaps the first idea was a bit over the top. The 1911 pattern pack could probably be easily viewed as two offerings, minimum, when SASS non-military styles are considered. The repro is definitely breaking new ground for pattern offerings and that sounds very interesting to me.

will ghormley · July 28, 2011, 03:49:24 PM

Hey Bob,

I thought about that too. Tandy Leather Factory is interested in the pattern pack, (which means it will be mass-produced and less expensive for everyone). I'm not sure they would be interested in two. If I can find the right balance of military, cowboy and civilian, I think it will have broader appeal and be a better seller. Two military belt holsters, (WWI and WWII), the tanker rig series, three cowboy holsters, three carry holsters, and like Dalton mentioned, magazine pouches.

It might be a little thick, and a little more expensive than some of the other pattern packs, but I think there would be something in it for everyone who loves the 1911. I could have "How-To" booklets on pages for each pattern on my website. That would raise the success rate for those who try the patterns, and cut down on some of the paper needed for printing.

Then there's the hardware. TLF my want to work out a deal where they offer hardware packets for the different holster's requirements. The military holsters require quite a bit of unique hardware. The cowboy holsters not so much. The concealed carry holsters might have their own requirements for hardware. I'd have to look into that.

But, the balls rollin' now. I just have to stay ahead of it so I don't get run over!
Will

Coca-Cola Kid · July 28, 2011, 06:20:29 PM

Glad to hear LF is finally getting their head out of their backside. I offered to do a conceal carry holster package for them about 5 years ago. They told me to pack sand. Sounds like the light bulb finally went off in their heads.

I know you'll do a great job at it. Your instruction/pattern packs are some of the best.

Slowhand Bob · July 28, 2011, 08:04:48 PM

I was sold as soon as you mentioned it. TLF getting involved will only sweeten the pot. thanks for the update.

will ghormley · July 28, 2011, 08:06:18 PM

TLF isn't interested in carrying any new hardware for the pattern. Para-military, simplified versions of holsters, (that look very similar to the military holsters), can be made using common hardware. They would be easier to construct and wouldn't require specific hardware. It would make the pattern pack easier to use. What do you blokes think about that?

I would go ahead an make patterns for the military holsters, and sell hardware sets that could be used to create accurate copies of the military holsters. However, these would be separate and in limited numbers. TLF wouldn't carry them and the patterns and hardware packets would have to be bought through my website.

What are your thoughts on that? Are the military holsters that important? Is there any need to do para-military patterns if they aren't what was actually used? Would the pattern pack be more attractive if it had more cowboy and carry holsters and no military or para-military holsters at all?

This is still in the plannin' stage. I'd like to get a good handle on it before I start investing my production time in it.

Thanks for your input!
Will

Dalton Masterson · July 29, 2011, 05:44:38 PM

Will,
I think that a basic hardware kit as an additional item would be fine. That would allow the folks that want to build a basic "almost like the real thing" out of Tandy parts, and the ones that want the original type parts can opt for those as an addition.
I think most would go for the Tandy parts though. Not necessarily the folks here on this forum, but some might.
I would go for the original parts at least once for my own stuff anyway.

If you could come up with an almost original pattern, I think it would still work.

I will try to get out that box to you tomorrow. I am a looking for one of the items...
DM

Slowhand Bob · July 29, 2011, 06:46:52 PM

I'm in either way.

outrider · July 31, 2011, 08:07:53 AM

Will,

The M3 Tanker Holster pattern along with photos will be off in the mail tomorrow. All of the hardware is brass and the shoulder strap uses a brass (stamped out) conway buckle. Somewhere in the shop I have a 1916 holster...as soon as I figure out where it is I will do up a pattern and get it to you. By the way the onlt difference between the M3 and the later M7/M9 Tanker is the strapping. If you need any unfo on the M7/M9 strap let me know I have one here.

Do you have a US stamp? If not go into the Leatherworkers website and go to the "patterns" section....Jim Simmons has a pattern for the US stamp. Weaver also sells one but they are about $75.00