Cap 'n ball wads

[Fox Creek Kid]

The last batch of sperm whale oil I harvested damn near killed me!! 

[cpt dan blodgett]

Get a cheap hole punch set and use the 3/8" for the 36cal and the 7/16" for the 44. I chuck the hole punch  into a drill press at slow speed and cut  them out over a hardwood block. After I have a pile then I soak them in melted lube. I've used 50/50 beeswax & lard, beeswax & olive oil, beeswax & deer tallow, and straight deer tallow. I buy automotive felt 1/8" thick F-1 wool felt as floor scraps at a discount to the standard 3 ft wide rolls.

Do you think the drill press is a much better stroke than whacking with a mallet?

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Using a drill press provides very neat wads.  It depends on a properly balanced punch.  Luckily, these are provided by toolmakers.  Someone posted a link to harbor Freight and they were one click away. 

[hellgate]

The drill press is way faster and way quieter (easier on the ears). Also do not lube the felt first, do that after cutting the wads. The only downside is the wads build up on the inside of the punch and suddenly spring out and fly all over the floor. I put a cardboard fender/barrier/backer to contain the flinging. Occasionally I  dress the edges of the punch to sharpen it. I also got the Dremel out and smoothed the  interior ledge so the wads are ejected with less distance. I take a copper wire and push the accumulated wads out of the punch just before I think they're gonna spring out.

[Mason Stillwell]

Being a lazy  bugger I am with Dick on this one

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Using a drill press provides very neat wads.  It depends on a properly balanced punch.  Luckily, these are provided by toolmakers.  Someone posted a link to harbor Freight and they were one click away. 

Here's one source.  There are many others if you know what to look for.

http://www.amazon.com/Leather-Punches-Leatherworking-Drill-Press/dp/B000RB2C30

[Noz]

The best size wad cutters I have found for the "44"s is the Harbor Freight 11mm. fits the chambers perfectly.

[Mako]

The best size wad cutters I have found for the "44"s is the Harbor Freight 11mm. fits the chambers perfectly.

That's .004" too small and in a diameter never intended to touch the chamber of a Colt or Remington!  Only a Ø7/16" will do!

[rickk]

Mako,

I have been doing leather work for 15+ years now, and have probably 100+ punches going from 1/16 to 2.5 inches, including many metric ones as well.

They are typically not made to any sort of real precision.

Some manufacturers come closer on the outside, some come closer on the inside... some do not come close at all... especially the ones made in china. The higher quality Osbourne branded ones tend to come closer to the marked size than most on the inside of the bore, but what happens on the outside still depends largely on the material being punched and how thick it is.

About all 11mm often means is that either the outside or the inside is closer to 11 mm than 10 or 12 mm.

Under 3/4 of an inch, I have just about every size ever made, both inches and millimeters, some are duplicates from different manufacturers. I find the ones that do what I need to do, and do not worry all that much about how they are marked.

Also, as they wear and get sharpened, punches open up slightly in size due to the way they are made on the inside of the bore. The bore opens up as one moves away from the cutting edge to allow the cut circles to come out easier.

Rick

[Mako]

Mako,

I have been doing leather work for 15+ years now, and have probably 100+ punches going from 1/16 to 2.5 inches, including many metric ones as well.

They are typically not made to any sort of real precision.
largely on the material being punched  and how thick it is.

Rick

Hmmmmmmmm...

Let me try this again...

NO Noz NO!!  That's over .004" undersize!!              (Wink, wink, wink)

Is that better?
 

I hope I don't have to spell it out.

[fourfingersofdeath]

I don't use a wad, I just use more ffg! Too easy!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I don't use a wad, I just use more ffg! Too easy!

4FD;  I sort of agree, and completely agree for cartridges.  But for a capn'baller there should be some lube - somewhere.  I used to use the traditional method of smearing some lube OVER the loaded balls.  Messy, and the first shot clears most of it into a greasy mist somewhere else.  The alternative is a lubed wad UNDER the ball.  Wonderfulwads go for a wonderous price.  So I now punch wads from paper pulp egg cartons and soak them in melted lube.  

The 11mm punch is generally too small, and 7/16" punches are rare, so I cut off a belted magnum case & chamfer to make a punch.  usually I tap them out, but have tried to chuck the cut-off case with dodgy results.  I could use my brothers lathe to make one - when I get the time. .45 punches are available for a price.

I lost the link, but "Lucky R.K." posted a photo of drill mounted punches on 28 Mar 2011.  The topic was on making shotgun wads.

[Noz]

Hmmmmmmmm...

Let me try this again...

NO Noz NO!!  That's over .004" undersize!!              (Wink, wink, wink)

Is that better?
 

I hope I don't have to spell it out.

MY, my. did we get our panties in a wad?

.004 under size means .002 gap all the way around. With a fat 1/8" wad saturated with bullet lube and compressed between the ball and the powder by my gorilla fist, the wad fits the chamber very nicely.  Actually, it usually is a press fit into the chambers.
As spooky as I am about "chain fires", I wouldn't use anything that didn't fit to my specs.

[Mako]

MY, my. did we get our panties in a wad?

.004 under size means .002 gap all the way around. With a fat 1/8" wad saturated with bullet lube and compressed between the ball and the powder by my gorilla fist, the wad fits the chamber very nicely.  Actually, it usually is a press fit into the chambers.
As spooky as I am about "chain fires", I wouldn't use anything that didn't fit to my specs.

NOZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not you too!

Do I have to email you first to let you know when I'm joking?  I was laughing about the difference of .004", it's nothing.  In fact I think the punches are both the same diameter on my two Harbor Freight super cheap sets even though one's supposed to be 11mm and the other 7/16.  None of those sets are very precision.

I thought you'd read before where I spent the big bucks on special .45 caliber wad punches and found they were really to big to work well.  They work OK dry but when lubed it's like you said, everything is nice and tight.  In fact a Ø.450 punched wad when lubed doesn't start well.

You and I are in violent agreement...  Hmmmmmm, what am I doing wrong?  Let me try it again...When I put rolly eyed, blinky, winky things on posts it means I am kidding..     I guess that's confusing too, am I kiding now, or was I kidding then?

Seriously though, you are absolutely right about the diameter, whether it be 11mm or 7/16" that is the ideal size for a chamber that accepts a Ø.451, Ø.454 or even a Ø.457 ball.  Lube it up the way you and I do and we will never have chain fires from the front and we will have a nice soft fouling in our pistols that will allow us to shoot all day long.

Your friend,
Mako

[rickk]

Still on the subject of punches, for some reason the punch manufacturers all insist on too blunt of an angle where they form the cutting surface. I can only assume that they anticipate that someone is going to use the punch to cut anything and everything including brass or aluminum or sheet stainless steel gaskets .

Whenever I get a new punch, used only for leather, felt, and occasionally cardboard in the really big sizes (cannon wads) , I spend some time getting it to know my bench grinder, to grinding it back to reshape the cutting area to a much sharper angle.

I have tried lots of different hammers with my punches, and the one that I stick with is a 4# weighted urethane dead blow hammer. In the smaller size punches ( < 0.5" ) the weight of the head does pretty much all the work.  Even in the bigger sizes it is rare that I can not punch thru in a single whack.

Punch performance is largely dependent on the work surface. It wants to be something that will damage not the punch, but also something that will hold the material being punched in place with minimal rebound when the hammer strikes the punch.

For most work, I use a self -healing "poundo board", something available from most leather craft outlets. The poundo board sits on my work bench, which is made up of 2x4's stacked sideways and held together with 1/2" threaded rod every foot to made a 3.5" thick bench.  My bench "legs" are not legs at all, but  five 6x6's stacked on top of each other on each side and also the back, sort of a "log cabin" construction. The 6x6's are held together with a few lengths of  1/2" rebar driven thru pre-drilled holes to form big nails.  This bench also holds my presses (including a Corbin swage press). It does not move when working the presses, nor does it move when punching most holes with my punches. A single whack is all it usually takes to punch thru.

Even my heavy bench is stressed with really big punches. To cut thru corrugated cardboard on it with say a 2-1/8" punch causes too much bounce and it takes several hits to go thru the cardboard. I have a length of oak firewood about two feet in diameter that I reserve for such needs. I use one of the cut ends as a work surface. Usually a single strike of the same 2-1/8" punch will go thru the same corrugated cardboard when using the chunk of oak for a work surface.  The oak is soft enough that it does not damage the punch. Of course, the oak does get eaten up a bit with the punch, but for cardboard it does not matter, and if it gets too beaten up I can just cut another one next time I am cutting firewood.

Rick

[Mako]

Rick,
Thanks that sounds like a good regimen.  However the next time I head by a Harbor Freight I am getting a set of these:



http://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece-hollow-punch-set-67030.html

Unfortunately Noz is going to be upset because they only have a 7/16" at this time.

I'll try re-dressing the drill press mounted punch,  I can only expect it to get better.

I'm like you, I quit using the bench to hammer punch because of the shock to the benches.  I currently head out to the porch off of the shop and place my 16" "chunk 'o stump on it and I cut into the grain ends like you do.  I used to have a stump I used for this until I had it ground down this spring.  I saved a 4 inch slice of it that I use as my cutting board.

~Mako

[cpt dan blodgett]

Being basically new at this and also kinda lazy which may be a common fault - I am torn between making my own wonder wads using beeswax and mutton tallow, a lube cookie, or adding additional tallow or oil to the mix and spatula lubing on top of the ball.  For the latter my plan was to store the lube in an old saddle soap shoe polish tin.

Is this essentially 3 different ways to skin the same cat, each with its own down side

[rickk]

For me, range time comes scarce lately. Lubing the wads at home some rainy day means less hassle when I get to the range. Plus, lubed wads seem to make less of a mess than shoveling stuff over the top of the ball.

Also, I live where I can walk out in my back yard and legally shoot if I want.  I try to limit that to testing loads rather than prolonged practice sessions to avoid annoying the neighbors (a quarter mile away) too much. When I walk out there, I want to carry the least amount of "stuff" that I can. Wads are easier for me to carry than lube and associated equipment. I just throw some lubed wads in with some balls into a plastic bottle that fits in a pocket, along with a small power flask in the other pocket, and a capper on a lanyard around my neck, and I am all set to shoot.

A shoe polish tin could hold some balls and lubed wads very nicely.

But, to each his own, whatever works best for your situation, etc, etc.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Chewin' tabackie tins, really plastic, make good containers for balls, wads, etc.  I think one will fit in some cap pouches.