Schofield problem needs your help.

[RickB]

I have a beautiful ASM Schofiled wells fargo model. I have owned it for a number of years and love how it shoots. Very solid gun. The problem I am having with it is that the lever used to open the breaktop is very stiff. I mean VERY stiff. It takes two hands to open it and then you risk the possibility of cutting yourself on the metal because it is so hard to open. I know the early ASM schofileds had an issue with that area popping open when the gun shot and I assume that the problem I am having is due to ASM beefing up the spring that holds the latch shut. Anyone know a good sunsmith that can remedy this problem for me?

I took it to Sheels to have their gunsmith look at it and he said he couldn't or wouldn't try to work on it because he knew very little about this gun. I respect that he refused it if he felt he couldn't assist me.

But it still leaves me with a problem. What to do about the spring?

I would appreciate anyone in Iowa or closer to work on it for me. Anyone know a good gunsmith with Schofield expreence?

[St. George]

You actually 'want' some stiffness, since that's what ensures a tight lock-up.

Get a copy of Chicoine's 'Gunsmithing the Guns of the Old West' and read it...

Removing the Barrel Latch is simple - 'you' can do this - so use the correct screwdriver, and do so.

That done - look for any high spots or burring and if present, stone them away.

The spring is likely a coil spring - so remove 1/2 of the first coil - reassemble, and try.

Good Luck!

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[RickB]

I've got more stiffness than is needed with this latch. It is so stiff that even the gunsmith at Sheels was having problems opening the gun.

From what I've been reading on the web and diagrams I have found (mostly dealing with Uberti) the spring is not a coil type. It is a v shaped spring. You can see in this diagram what I mean. Part #878 http://www.gunreports.com/special_reports/handguns/Smith-Wesson-Schofield-Revolvers150-1.html

Not sure I could figure out how to make it so it is less stiff with that kind of spring. I'm not a gunsmith and am not confident on operating on my own guns. Minor stuff maybe. Not sure this could be something I can fix myself. But if someone could give me some suggestions I might give it a try.

The gun is a excellent shooter and other than this problem is a great gun. I know ASM has had a bad rep, but I think this gun is worth fixing.

[St. George]

Then contact VTI gun parts and ask about a replacement spring.

The 'gunsmith' at a Scheels can boresight and mount a scope - maybe...

Dave Chicoine also wrote 'Gunsmithing the Guns of the New West' - and that deals more with the various Italian clones.

Barnes & Noble's usually has copies - so stop by and peruse one.

Good Luck!

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[RickB]

I found a title by that author called Guns of the new west, but it said nothing about gunsmithing. I'm assuming that is the one you are talking about?

Does it have parts on gunsmithing these modern guns?

I found a couple of places that have replacement parts for Uberti Schofields but I don't know if the ASM guns are interchangable with Uberti parts. Anyone who could anwser that would be most helpful.

[St. George]

It is.

It does.

Clone parts interchangeability is an answer for someone else to address, but relieving spring strength is easily accomplished by filing the sides of said spring evenly on both sides.

So's polishing both mating services - and 'sometimes' that can make all the difference.

Good Luck!

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Montana Slim]

Rick,

Try Vaughn Trueman, the Bullet Hole gunsmith. See his ad in The Shootist.

Slim

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Dave Chicoine has written several books about S&W Top Break revolvers. He is also probably the best gunsmith in business today who is qualified to work on these guns, both the originals and the modern replicas. This book is the most comprehensive book he has written about the Number Three Top Breaks.

http://www.amazon.com/Smith-Wesson-Six-Guns-West/dp/1931464103

Yes, it is expensive, but it is well worth it. It is chock full of historical details on all the #3 models and historical information about Smith and Wesson, both the company and the men. The chapter on gun smithing the Top Break Number Three guns is about 75 pages long and chock full of drawings, diagrams, and photos. His book Gunsmithing Guns of the Old West is also very good, but he does not go into the detail on the large frame guns that he does in the Six Guns book.

According to Chicoine, the ASM Schofields are so similar to the originals, that the same information for working on the originals can be used for them. Chicoine was the man who Cimarron owner Mike Harvey used to go through and document all the problems with the ASM guns. Chicoine's report was sent to ASM, but they did not follow all of his recommendations. According to Chicoine, there can be more wrong with an ASM Schofield than just a too heavy latch spring. There can also be problems with the actual lock up itself.

I strongly suggest you contact Dave Chicoine and see what he has to say about your problems with an ASM Schofield. It may be more than just relieving spring strength. Then again, that may be all that is needed. Here is Dave Chicoine's web site.

http://www.oldwestgunsmith.com/

If nothing else, and you want to try relieving the strength of the latch spring, you probably will not have much luck with a file. Springs are usually hard enough that a file will not cut them. Better to use a stone. Be very careful, don't take too much off, you cannot put it back on. If you are very careful, you can use a small grinding wheel on a Dremel tool, yes, I have done it, but you must be careful not to over heat the steel or it will loose its temper. Hold the spring in your hand, don't put it in a vice. It will get too hot to hold before it gets hot enough to loose its temper. Dip the spring in water frequently, to keep it cool. Also, it is very important when thinning any spring to NEVER leave any nicks or sharp corners behind, as these can form stress risers which are an invitation for the spring to break. You can work from the sides of the spring, but generally I prefer to thin it in thickness. In very small increments.

Beware, Chicoine was the man who told ASM they needed stronger springs. But he also says it may require more than a slightly weaker spring to make it a sweet shooter.

If you really want it done right, contact Chicoine and see what he has to say.

[RickB]

Thanks one and all. I will contact both Chicoine and Vaughn.

I will not try to do this work myself. I know my skill level and am not willing to take the risk of damaging this gun trying to do my own gunsmithing. The gun is a sweet shooter and is one of my favorites. This is the only problem I have with it. I believe it is worth fixing this problem.

I'll see what the two men have to say about this gun and if either of them are willing to tackle the job. I just hope it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg to get it fixed.

Thank you one and all for your input. It is apprecited.

[Pettifogger]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but the ASM Schofields have a VERY poor reputation.  The quality control and fit and finish on most is terrible, so much so that even when parts were available you still couldn't get the thing to work right.  There are virtually no spare parts.  If there is anything major wrong with the one you have it probably would cost more to fix than the gun is worth.

[RickB]

Yes. I know that ASM had a bad rep. I understand that totally. You're not informing me of something unknown.

I just love how there are so many on these forums who love to rain on someones parade.

For that matter, a lot of guns Ubertis have also had issues in the past regardless of who imports them. But lets not get into that shall we?

I'll get my ASM fixed up and it won't cost you a thing. Agreed?

The guns value is my concern. Unless you're offering to pay for it that is. 

[Pettifogger]

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade.  But as someone that works on a lot of these guns and writes a lot of how-to gun articles, I just wanted to give you a fair assessment.  A lot of people don't know the ASM has a spotty QC record.  Don't kill the messenger for telling you the emperor has no clothes.  The value of an object to its owner has nothing to do with market value.  If the gun has meaning to you, then it is worth it to fix it.

[RickB]

Sorry for jumping on you about the negative comment. It just seems that some here love to point out the foolishness of others in their gun selections. Also, most of what I've read about ASM quality has come from people who've had no more experence with these guns than what they've read on other forums. I've shot this gun and have enjoyed it to no end. I find it just as good in quality as the Navy Arms Schofield I own. Both are great guns. I've also known other people who've owned ASM guns and have had no problems with them. So for the most part I take the ASM is crap posts as one persons opinion and usually one spread by those who've never done more than spread the word of others. Kinda like those who always bad mouth Fords or Dodge cars but have never had one themselves.

As my granddad used to say, "opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and most of them stink". 

Believe me. I've had this gun long enough (about 12 years now) and I've heard all the bad things about it from people who've never owned or shot one.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Well, just so you know, Dave Chicoine was the man who Cimarron hired to get to the bottom of their ASM quality issues. He states in his Sixgun book that the problem was not so much shoddy quality as inconsistent quality. When they fixed one thing, something else would be out of tolerance. That's why he recommends that an ASM Schofield should be gone over by a smith experienced in the old S&W Top Breaks. He has a whole laundry list of things he checks on them that might possibly need correcting. Perhaps you are lucky and got a reasonably good one. The history is that eventually, Cimarron stopped importing the ASM Schofields because of inconsistent quality. Which is a shame, because the ASM versions were closer to the real thing than the Uberti versions.

And you really ought to watch your language.

[Long Johns Wolf]

Driftwood Johnson & RickB: I have another question regarding these ASM Schofields if I may.
How do their dimensions compare to the real thing and to the Uberti one?
Long Johns Wolf

[RickB]

From what I've read the ASM Schofields were as close dimensionally to the originals as any copy has been. The only difference being the fact they made the gun fit the .45 colt rather than the shorter .45 Schofield round.

I can feel the difference between my ASM model and my Navy Arms model.

Driftwood, my language is no worse than others here. I've seen the same word used on these forums by others. I've even seen worse.

[St. George]

You may have seen it used on other forums - but this one's more polite - watch your language.

Scouts Out!

[RickB]

St. George, I've seen it used on THIS forum many times. Not just on other forums. If you're going to chastise me for it then you better go around and police all the others who've done it too.

I've seen and been subject to some who are not "so polite" on here a few times.

Not that it justifies my usage of such words, but it's worthless to close the barn door once the horse has been let out.

[St. George]

I checked - you're the only one on my forums.

As to 'civility' - people 'do' pay attention, and some non-posting folks do get upset and PM me about things.

Normally, I delete offending commentary.

Just remember - keep a civil tongue, and you can't go wrong - especially when you asked and were answered quite politely by folks who have experience with the item in question.

No one here jumped on you about your firearm selection - all that was mentioned was the fact that Armi San Marco had QC problems, so that you were aware of them - nothing more.

They were trying to be helpful.

Scouts Out!

[Long Johns Wolf]

Thanks, RickB.
Long Johns Wolf