Cap and Ball Guns

[James Hall]

I'm thinking about getting me a cap and ball revolver. How safe are they? Don't want to blow my hand off...LOL! I've heard about hang fire and what to do. But if it does hang fire....how do I get the shot out?

[hellgate]

If you get a pop of the cap but no BOOM!, then hold the gun aimed down range for 10 seconds or so then pick off the spent cap, run a nipple pick through the nipple into the powder, re cap and shoot it again. All during the decapping, picking & recapping be sure to keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction and keep your fingers & thumb away from the cylinder gap. I've done that dozens of times. However I run a nipple pick through each flash hole every time before capping.

You really can't overload a STEEL FRAMED C&B with real black powder but you can shoot a brass framed gun loose with heavy loads.

[Mako]

James,
They are actually very safe.  BP is a low pressure propellant and it is actually very forgiving.

Let's get some terminology straight:

Hang Fire: This is NOT a non-firing condition.  It literally means there is a delay before it fires, it "hangs."  This is extremely rare...I have never had one with a cap and ball revolver.  I have had them with heavy ordnance but never a small arm.

Misfire:  Technically a hang fire falls into this category, but usually means the round did not go off.  It can be because the cap didn't fire, the charge didn't go off or it was a squib.

Squib:  An underpowered round.  Often without powder and only the cap or primer goes off.  Often a Squib will send the ball or bullet in the case of a cartridge into the  bore where it stops because of friction. Squibs can be caused by underloads or contaminated powder.

There are a lot of other terms but we'll stop there for now. The most common problem with cap and ball revolvers are:

• Hammer drops and no ignition
  Caused by:
  
  
  
  • Missing cap
  • Debris in the hammer channel slowing or stopping the hammer from hitting the cap with enough force to set it off
  • A "dead" cap, usually contaminated with oil  
  Action to take:
  
  
  
  • Check hammer channel for cap fragments
  • Try a fresh cap

• Cap goes off but not the powder
  Caused by:
  
  
  
  • Blocked flash hole, often caused by oil in the hole on first shot.
  • No powder
  • Wet or contaminated powder  
  Action to take:
  
  
  
  • Check barrel for bullet or ball
  • Try a fresh cap

• Weak sounding shot (usually no indication of the bullet hitting the target)  
  Action to take:
  
  
  
  • Check barrel for bullet or ball
  • If no obstruction, then continue to shoot

• Bullet stuck in barrel
  Action to take:
  
  
  
  • Remove barrel (or in the case of a Remington the cylinder)
  • Using a "squib" rod or brass cleaning rod tap the ball through the barrel

• Bullet stuck in cylinder
  Action to take:
  
  
  
  • Remove Cylinder
  • Using a cone wrench unscrew the cone from the back of the cylinder
  • Check the chamber for powder
  • If powder is present empty it out through the hole
  • Using a steel rod less than the diameter of the hole stick it through the hole and  tap[ the ball out to the front of the cylinder.

This is a short list, everything is "manageable."  Nothing is going to "blow up" in your hand.  As Hellgate said it is low pressure and there are more wives' tales about what could go wrong than actually do.

Be cause of the low pressures involved you will usually not even rupture a barrel with a ball stuck in it with BP.  You may bulge it, but with modern steel a cap and ball gin is pretty tough.  The same is not true for cartridge guns, and definitely not true for smokeless powder.

Get some guides on BP and read.  Read this forum and the Dark Arts daughter forum at the top of this page.  After you read then come back and ask questions.

Regards,
Mako

[James Hall]

James,
They are actually very safe.  BP is a low pressure propellant and it is actually very forgiving.

Let's get some terminology straight:

Hang Fire: This is NOT a non-firing condition.  It literally means there is a delay before it fires, it "hangs."  This is extremely rare...I have never had one with a cap and ball revolver.  I have had them with heavy ordnance but never a small arm.

Misfire:  Technically a hang fire falls into this category, but usually means the round did not go off.  It can be because the cap didn't fire, the charge didn't go off or it was a squib.

Squib:  An underpowered round.  Often without powder and only the cap or primer goes off.  Often a Squib will send the ball or bullet in the case of a cartridge into the  bore where it stops because of friction. Squibs can be caused by underloads or contaminated powder.

There are a lot of other terms but we'll stop there for now. The most common problem with cap and ball revolvers are:

• Hammer drops and no ignition
  Caused by:
  
  
  
  • Missing cap
  • Debris in the hammer channel slowing or stopping the hammer from hitting the cap with enough force to set it off
  • A "dead" cap, usually contaminated with oil  
  Action to take:
  
  
  
  • Check hammer channel for cap fragments
  • Try a fresh cap

• Cap goes off but not the powder
  Caused by:
  
  
  
  • Blocked flash hole, often caused by oil in the hole on first shot.
  • No powder
  • Wet or contaminated powder  
  Action to take:
  
  
  
  • Check barrel for bullet or ball
  • Try a fresh cap

• Weak sounding shot (usually no indication of the bullet hitting the target)  
  Action to take:
  
  
  
  • Check barrel for bullet or ball
  • If no obstruction, then continue to shoot

• Bullet stuck in barrel
  Action to take:
  
  
  
  • Remove barrel (or in the case of a Remington the cylinder)
  • Using a "squib" rod or brass cleaning rod tap the ball through the barrel

• Bullet stuck in cylinder
  Action to take:
  
  
  
  • Remove Cylinder
  • Using a cone wrench unscrew the cone from the back of the cylinder
  • Check the chamber for powder
  • If powder is present empty it out through the hole
  • Using a steel rod less than the diameter of the hole stick it through the hole and  tap[ the ball out to the front of the cylinder.

This is a short list, everything is "manageable."  Nothing is going to "blow up" in your hand.  As Hellgate said it is low pressure and there are more wives' tales about what could go wrong than actually do.

Be cause of the low pressures involved you will usually not even rupture a barrel with a ball stuck in it with BP.  You may bulge it, but with modern steel a cap and ball gin is pretty tough.  The same is not true for cartridge guns, and definitely not true for smokeless powder.

Get some guides on BP and read.  Read this forum and the Dark Arts daughter forum at the top of this page.  After you read then come back and ask questions.

Regards,
Mako

Thanks man! I really got my eyes on a Walker, 1851 Navy, and 1858 New Army. I'm leaning toward the 1858.

[Wolfgang]

The so called " '58 Remingtons"  ( actually a replica of the Remington "New Model Army" ) are very good.  A better design ( with the top strap ) than the colts with the arbor and wedge arrangement.   I have a "few" ( sic ) Remingtons.

You can have a look-see at :

www.drburkholter.com/cf6.html 

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

The so called " '58 Remingtons"  ( actually a replica of the Remington "New Model Army" ) are very good.  A better design ( with the top strap ) than the colts with the arbor and wedge arrangement.   I have a "few" ( sic ) Remingtons.

You can have a look-see at :

www.drburkholter.com/cf6.html 

Wolfgang, what is the secret to putting the cylinder in easily?  Mine is extremely hard to get the base pin back into the cylinder.

[Wolfgang]

Wolfgang, what is the secret to putting the cylinder in easily?  Mine is extremely hard to get the base pin back into the cylinder.

Is it hard to get the pin thru the cylinder ? or hard to get it into the hole in the recoil plate ?   On none of mine have I had any trouble getting it to go thru the cylinder.  But on some it dosen't want to go into the recoil plate hole easily.  When this occurred I worked on the end of the cyliner pin a bit with a file to round it more.  All worked slick after a bit of that.

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

Is it hard to get the pin thru the cylinder ? or hard to get it into the hole in the recoil plate ?   On none of mine have I had any trouble getting it to go thru the cylinder.  But on some it dosen't want to go into the recoil plate hole easily.  When this occurred I worked on the end of the cyliner pin a bit with a file to round it more.  All worked slick after a bit of that.

I have to fuss with it to get it too start into the cylinder hole.  Once it start it goes into the recoil plate easily.  I have thought about a slight bevel for the cylinder hole and perhaps a touch on the base pin.

[Wolfgang]

I have to fuss with it to get it too start into the cylinder hole.  Once it start it goes into the recoil plate easily.  I have thought about a slight bevel for the cylinder hole and perhaps a touch on the base pin.

Are you getting the cylinder in proper alignment with the frame before you are sliding the cylinder pin in ?   One of my rather beat up Remingtons ( I did get it for free ) has enough wear and slop in the cylinder notches that the bolt drops into that it doesn't line up naturally with the pin and I have to be careful to hold it in alignment before I slide the pin in.   Slightly beveling the end of the pin should help also. 

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

Are you getting the cylinder in proper alignment with the frame before you are sliding the cylinder pin in ?   One of my rather beat up Remingtons ( I did get it for free ) has enough wear and slop in the cylinder notches that the bolt drops into that it doesn't line up naturally with the pin and I have to be careful to hold it in alignment before I slide the pin in.   Slightly beveling the end of the pin should help also.  

I doubt that I am getting it in exact alignment and I can tell there is no room for error.  I probably am getting ahead of my skill by thinking it should be easy too do.  I always heard how much faster the Remington was to change cylinders than the Colt.  At this time that is not even close to accurate. Full disclosure:  I have been changing cylinders on the Colts for 40 years and the Remington probably 40 minutes. 

[Border Ruffian]

I'm thinking about getting me a cap and ball revolver. How safe are they? Don't want to blow my hand off...LOL! I've heard about hang fire and what to do. But if it does hang fire....how do I get the shot out?

I think you'll enjou the cap and ball revolvers.  A little reading and research will give you all the information you need, but it helps if a pard can show you the ropes in person.  My favorites are the 1851 Navy, followed by the Walker and Dragoons. 

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

I'm thinking about getting me a cap and ball revolver. How safe are they? Don't want to blow my hand off...LOL! I've heard about hang fire and what to do. But if it does hang fire....how do I get the shot out?

James, there are a lot of small things that can go wrong with cap and ball shooting.  The wrong size caps, damp powder, wrong ball size and the most common, forgot to put powder in the cylinder.  The truth is, these things are not complicated, folks that never even seen a school used them ... in fact they are so simple even a Caveman could shoot one.

As far as safety ... that is a direct result of the user not the firearm.  In the hands of a careless person no gun is safe but then neither is a car.  Heck I have been shooting BP for 40 years and I still have 3 good fingers and one good eye. 

[Wolfgang]

I doubt that I am getting it in exact alignment and I can tell there is no room for error.  I probably am getting ahead of my skill by thinking it should be easy too do.  I always heard how much faster the Remington was to change cylinders than the Colt.  At this time that is not even close to accurate. Full disclosure:  I have been changing cylinders on the Colts for 40 years and the Remington probably 40 minutes. 

I'm unable to deduce ( sight unseen ) what your problem is.  I change Remington cylinders in a flash and with no trouble at all.  But I do not posses a confuser video thinger to film for you how I do it.   I do take the cylinder out to the left and put the replacement in from the left which is not what most do.  I works slick and easy for me. 

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

I'm unable to deduce ( sight unseen ) what your problem is.  I change Remington cylinders in a flash and with no trouble at all.  But I do not posses a confuser video thinger to film for you how I do it.   I do take the cylinder out to the left and put the replacement in from the left which is not what most do.  I works slick and easy for me.  

Have tried left and right.  Straight and with a cylinder roll.  The hole in the cylinder has a very sharp edge and the rod is fairly blunt.  I figure what the heck.  I am going to try a very slight taper for the cylinder and bevel the rod some and see how that works.  Worst case, I need a new cylinder.  



this picture shows the bevel on the cylinder hole.  It is a cartridge conversion, but I looked at a couple of different cylinder pictures and they all show this slight bevel where mine does not.  I think the factory missed a step.

[Cuts Crooked]

The bevel seen in that pic is at the REAR of the cylinder. It would not help to do that! Your problem is at the FRONT where the pin ENTERS...not where it exits.

I would deal with tapering the pin first and see if that helps before I went to removing metal from the cylinder pin hole.

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

The bevel seen in that pic is at the REAR of the cylinder. It would not help to do that! Your problem is at the FRONT where the pin ENTERS...not where it exits.

I would deal with tapering the pin first and see if that helps before I went to removing metal from the cylinder pin hole.

Thanks, I figured the bevel would be on the front and rear?  On the other pictures I looked at for C&B it looked like a bevel on the front?

[Montana Slim]

I've beveled the end of the cylinder pin on 1/2 dozen or so NM Remingtons.....makes a big difference.

Also, when installing the cylinder....roll it in from the left side of the frame. Start with the hammer lowered, and roll it in as you gently lift the hammer. I learned this trick from a real old-timer...back when I was just a kid.

Slim

[Wolfgang]

I've beveled the end of the cylinder pin on 1/2 dozen or so NM Remingtons.....makes a big difference.

Also, when installing the cylinder....roll it in from the left side of the frame. Start with the hammer lowered, and roll it in as you gently lift the hammer. I learned this trick from a real old-timer...back when I was just a kid.

Slim

That is about whut I do.   Definitely bevel the end of the cylinder pin.  Have a look first at how much of the pin goes into the recoil shield, .... make sure the full diameter of the pin exists where it will be in the surface of the recoil shield, . . bevel the rest of it that is deeper into the recoil shield.  Should help a LOT.   

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

Thanks to all of you.  I really love the way this remmy shoots and this should add the frosting to the cake.