So...just how accurate can a 44-40 levergun be with black powder

[Bryan Austin]

I just sent payment today for the NOE 432 five holer. If the Accurate bullet turns out to be more accurate we'll trade moulds S.J. Naturally, I'll expect you to eat the shipping as well. 

lol, I will have both when it gets here. I already have the NOE 432 

[Fox Creek Kid]

So, how's the NOE 432 shoot in your guns? 

[Bryan Austin]

So, how's the NOE 432 shoot in your guns?  

I have yet to shoot at distances it was made for. However, at 50' , with my revolver, I get more consistent groups.

[Fox Creek Kid]

...at 50' , with my revolver, I get more consistent groups.

What were you using before? 

[Bryan Austin]

What were you using before?  

Mav Dutch with full loads. Better accuracy with lighter loads...but that was not what I was looking for.

[Fox Creek Kid]

44wcf, I have been pondering your tests and am curious if 20 to 1 alloy would tighten the groups.   I think so.

[w44wcf]

Fox Creek Kid,
In my rifle, using the Accurate/ Fairshake copy of the 427098 which drops bullets @ .429", my experience has been that w.w.+ 2% tin groups a bit better than 20/1, that's why I choose it for testing the Accurate 43-215 and NOE 432-200.

That being said, it is possible that since the single lube bullets are a different style, that a different alloy might give a bit better results........

w44wcf   

[Fairshake]

John, I had the Accurate 43-210B made to drop at .429 so that it would work with my guns and sizing set up.
First, I would like to thank you for all your help and input as the mould needed the test work that you took care of and I thank you for everything you have done.
All my 44-40 guns which are USFA and Uberti 1873 and revolvers slug at the correct .427 for the caliber. My guns all shoot well with the bullet close to the .429 sizing.
I use 20-1 alloy and discussed this with Tom at Accurate when ordering the mould. I sent him some of the alloy so that the final product could be checked.
I have my Star dies made by Lathesmith and he cut my .429 sizing die at .4285 This allows my bullets to be sized to a concentric size with out collapsing my lube grooves capcity.
I started using the Mav Dutchman bullet and as has been said. It will not shoot well after about 75 yards and that has been my experience. I have even have some break while sizing.. I am not new at casting and I think this bullet needs more driving band and a smaller lube groove. Just like the one that was designed by John. Later David

[Fox Creek Kid]

...All my 44-40 guns which are USFA and Uberti 1873 and revolvers slug at the correct .427 for the caliber...

Just out of curiousity, what did you use to measure the bores/chamber mouths? I ask because all mine are at 0.430" - 0.4315". Perhpas Uberti has tightened their specs, but more often people use regular calipers to measure and they aren't worth a damn for that.


http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/Measuring_chamber_throats.html

[Bryan Austin]

I now have an accurate mold on order!!!!  

Accurate Mold showed up on my door steps today!  

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Darn good service!

[Bryan Austin]

Think I will have to stop there...lol Now I have molds for CAS, Standard shooting and a rifle round!

[Fairshake]

FCK, I will be the first to tell you that any precise measurement that is taken with a caliper be it standard or digital will not be correct. You don't know a lot about me and one of those things is that I had two years of a four year machinist school. My best friend and I signed up together and after two years I dropped out to join the Military because of the Viet Nam war that was going on at the time.
I wish I would have went back and finished my other two years as I was just getting into running a milling machine.
My friend and I made all the measurements on his shop equipment using pin gauges for the cylinders.
My Star die maker also uses pin gauges to measure the final sizes for my Star dies. A true .4285 works better than the production dies made by Lyman and RCBS.
I have found that the USFA revolvers that I have purchased to be dead on the proper size for the caliber. 44-40's are supposed to be .427 but a few gun makers have decided to make them the same as 44 magnum and 44 special which is not correct. I can only assume that this is done for a savings on equipment and also production of bullets and dies. Colt at one time was so bad that many of the guns produced were only good for wall hanging.
Marlin has also decided to do the same with the rifles they make as 44WCF will attest to.
My friend Angelo who has the Goex distributorship for this area has about 6-7 Uberti 44-40 rifles in the 1866 and 1873 configurations. When I first was asked by him if I would make him some bullets, I advised that he take his guns to the local gunsmith and have the bores checked for proper sizing. He got back with me  and stated  that each rifle was found to be between .427-.428 I have no reason to doubt those findings. He has fired over 5000 of my bullets that are sized with my .4285 die. His feedback has been that they are the most accurate bullet he has used and they have accounted for many Louisiana wild hogs. I have always heard that the proof is in the pudding. Take Care David

[Fox Creek Kid]

...When I first was asked by him if I would make him some bullets, I advised that he take his guns to the local gunsmith and have the bores checked for proper sizing. He got back with me  and stated  that each rifle was found to be between .427-.428 I have no reason to doubt those findings. He has fired over 5000 of my bullets that are sized with my .4285 die. His feedback has been that they are the most accurate bullet he has used and they have accounted for many Louisiana wild hogs. I have always heard that the proof is in the pudding. Take Care David

No offense, but I trust damn few gunsmiths to measure precisely. Just sayin' as it won't hurt to measure a slug yourself precisely. I have just seen too many Uberti's run larger than that.  

[Bryan Austin]

My collection. I have the molds for the 44 wcfs and the 454190. The JP-200 is from Springfield Slim

[Fairshake]

FCK, You need to read my post. I and my friend measured my guns at a machine shop with the proper equipment.
My friend who is the Goex distributor lives over a 2 1/2 hour drive from me and if he says his guns are .427 then that is good enough for me. It's his guns and he has sent me pictures of his groups using my bullets sized at .4285. His guns might be .435 as far as I know but it don't matter a hill of beans as it does not effect my life in any way.

[Fox Creek Kid]

You're right Fairshake. I missed that part. My mistake.   

[Bryan Austin]

FCK,
Thank you for the kind words. NOE molds are made from aluminum and are well built. I have two of them.  Dimension wise they have been "spot on". The mold in question was a group buy mold. Personally, I ordered a 3 cavity. There were 31 folks that placed orders for them back in Jan. The molds were made and shipped in early August.  Sometimes, they may run a mold or two over the amount ordered.

Here is their website:
http://noe.castpics.net/
I clicked on Avaiilable molds which directed me to another link and 2nd from the bottom of the list is the mold.

Another mold for consideration is the Accurate 43-215C. Bullets from my mold weigh 217 grs in w.w. (original 44-40 bullet weight) and were also "spot on" the diameter I specified.  I also had a hand in designing that mold and was very pleased with the test results I got with it at 200 yards (target below).   I will be testing the NOE at that distance but it won't be until the end of September.    

Accurate molds website:
http://www.accuratemolds.com/index.php



Both companies produce very good molds but I must admit that I like the tapered alignment pins and the offset sprue plate that Tom uses on his Accurate Molds a bit better.

Target fired at 200 with the Accurate 43-215C bullet
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Leverguns/200yards427098modified.jpg

w44wcf

John, any chance you can add a photo to include Fairshake's 43-210B?

[Henry4440]

Well, 3 shots per target, 50m or 54.5 yards
Bullet: 427098
Alloy: 10:1
Lube: Lube 103
Wad: 0.022
Primer: Winchester
Case: Starline
Powder: 36.5 grs Swiss3

[Bryan Austin]

Well, 3 shots per target, 50m or 54.5 yards
Bullet: 427098
Alloy: 10:1
Wad: 0.022
Primer: Winchester
Case: Starline
Powder: 36.5 grs Swiss3

"The proof is in the pudding" as they say!