So...just how accurate can a 44-40 levergun be with black powder

[w44wcf]

using replications of late 1800's vintage ammunition. ?.(427098 / SWISS FFG / REM-UMC SHBP / CCI300)

After firing the 30 shot group, I had 10 rounds left and fired them on a separate target without cleaning the rifle (40 rounds total).  At 100 yards the 10 shot group measured just over 2" with  5 of the rounds impacting into slightly less than 1".

SWISS is the only powder that I have found that will do that (no foul out in 40 rounds) with the possible exception of the recent lot of KIK. More testing to do on that.  .



They can be very accurate indeed!

w44wcf  

[Bryan Austin]

Thanks 44, that outta shut them up for a while!  

Is this the balloon head cases?

[litl rooster]

as usual good report WCF

[will52100]

Good group, good ammo, and a heck of a good shooter.  It's been years since I put my Henry on paper, and that was more to get the sights dailed in and learn where it was hitting.  At one time I had the opertunity to shoot at steel chickens at 200 meters and could hit them every time I did my part.  My Henry is in 45 colt.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Good stuff, pard!

Is that a BigLube boolit?  (I think not)  Or the Rem RNFP with a bevel base?  I'm not familiar with the term:  REM-UMC SHBP

Whatever.  It's still good shootin' and a great report!

[w44wcf]

Pards,
Thank you for the kind words.  

Jack,
Yes.

Will52100,
Those chickens are a mite less than 3 minutes of angle in size (body diameter). Very good shooting at 200 meters!!

Steel Horse Bailey,
The 427098 is a copy of the original 44-40 bullet.  Lyman / Ideal 427098 molds (I have 5 of them) drop bullets closer to  .427" diameter which is fine for most early 44-40 barrels which measured closer to  .426" diameter.

The bullet I was using was made from a mold produced by Accurate Molds. Their number 43-210B.  "Fairshake" had them produce a copy of the 427098 but with flat bottomed lube grooves and an as molded diameter of .429" which is a good fit for current 44-40 barrels.  When one orders a mold from Accurate Molds, one can request the specific diameter they want the mold to make.    



SHBP- Solid Head Button Pocket
I should have referenced that in my original post.

w44wcf

[litl rooster]

what is the average weight of these 205 grain?

[w44wcf]

litl rooster,
In w.w. and lubed they weight right around 210 grs.

w44wcf

[Bryan Austin]

Awaiting the results of the new 432-200 w44wcf 

[w44wcf]

Jack,
I rec'd the NOE group buy mold Friday and made some bullets yesterday (Sat). In w.w. alloy they weigh 210 grs and measure .432" diameter. How about that!  A mold that drops bullets the diameter it is supposed to! My thanks to Swede.

I'll be loading some up and posting results later this week.  

Have you received your mold yet?

w44wcf

[Bryan Austin]

Jack,
I rec'd the NOE group buy mold Friday and made some bullets yesterday (Sat). In w.w. alloy they weigh 210 grs and measure .432" diameter. How about that!  A mold that drops bullets the diameter it is supposed to! My thanks to Swede.

I'll be loading some up and posting results later this week.  

Have you received your mold yet?

w44wcf

You bet! I posted over on the Cast Bullet forum

Left to right:

New 432-200 sized .430 - 217gr, Mav variant .427 206gr, my Mav mold .429 198gr, and another 432-200

Easy on me, I'm still a rookie!

432-200 on each end with a roll crimp on RP brass. Mav 200 in the middle with a Lee factory crimp on RP brass. 432-200 looks just like the Lyman 427098. Gonna shoot some today but the results will be irrelevant because they will not be 200 yards. Just 50ft.

Uberti Cattleman 5.5" Barrel

RP Brass
WLPs
38gr Swiss FF
Tapped settled, then
Compression die with .20 compression
Roll crimp

50' bench rest (but not perfect)
1.5" groups with 6 shots

951fps@435ft/lbs of energy

I think with the proper bench rest and shooter, it's a tack driver. I think for the long distance shots, others will use 35gr of Swiss FF

I loaded up 6 more with CCI 300 primers...don't waist your time. Don't have any CCI Magnum primers.

I really like them!

Looks like I mis-quoted you though...sorry! I should have double checked! My lead is a bit harder. I melted down some already cast bullets that I did not like. I think they were Origon Trail .430s that did not shoot good in my firearms. I melted the lube off then slipped them in my pot with a mixture of WW's so they are not as soft as WWs.

[w44wcf]

My mold arrived a few weeks ago. I made some bullets from w.w. and they measured .432" and weighed 210 grs.
How about that! A mold that actually drops bullets the diameter it is supposed to! Thank you Swede!



Loaded a box of 44-40's with the recipe shown on the target. I used Goex because with the standard 427098 two lube groove bullet, it fouls out in 12-15 rounds. So to see how this new bullet with its added lube capacity would preform with Goex, I set a couple of targets at 100 yards.

After firing several shots to get sighted in, I then fired additional rounds in some offhand practice until 15 remained. Those I fired at the target below. With the exception of the shot at 9:00 (shooter error?) and the one slightly out of the 10 ring at 11:00, the rest are in or cuttting the 10 ring with 1 in and 2 cutting the X ring.

The group size for 13 rounds was just under 3" .

After the box (50 rds) was fired, the barrel showed even fouling for its complete 24" length. Success!



By tweaking the recipe a bit, the group size could probably be tightened but 13 rounds under 3" @ 100 yards is pretty good performance I'd say.......

Next test will be at 200 yards.....

w44wcf

[Fox Creek Kid]

...but 13 rounds under 3" @ 100 yards is pretty good performance I'd say.......

Damn tootin' it is!!    Great write up, as usual. I like this bullet. What's the scoop on the mould? Material, cavities, etc.

[w44wcf]

FCK,
Thank you for the kind words. NOE molds are made from aluminum and are well built. I have two of them.  Dimension wise they have been "spot on". The mold in question was a group buy mold. Personally, I ordered a 3 cavity. There were 31 folks that placed orders for them back in Jan. The molds were made and shipped in early August.  Sometimes, they may run a mold or two over the amount ordered.

Here is their website:
http://noe.castpics.net/
I clicked on Avaiilable molds which directed me to another link and 2nd from the bottom of the list is the mold.

Another mold for consideration is the Accurate 43-215C. Bullets from my mold weigh 217 grs in w.w. (original 44-40 bullet weight) and were also "spot on" the diameter I specified.  I also had a hand in designing that mold and was very pleased with the test results I got with it at 200 yards (target below).   I will be testing the NOE at that distance but it won't be until the end of September.    

Accurate molds website:
http://www.accuratemolds.com/index.php



Both companies produce very good molds but I must admit that I like the tapered alignment pins and the offset sprue plate that Tom uses on his Accurate Molds a bit better.

Target fired at 200 with the Accurate 43-215C bullet
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Leverguns/200yards427098modified.jpg

w44wcf

[Fox Creek Kid]

Thanks, 44wcf. I just sent him an e-mail as I want this 432 NOE mould. 

[Mako]

w44wcf,
Wow, the results when evaluating minute of angle capability are very similar.  As you said the proof will be in the 200 yrd groups not the extrapolation.  I've had some decent results with the Mav Dutchman up to 100 yards and then had it begin to fall apart even at 175 yds.  where we had a berm.

You have posted your results with different bullets on different threads.  Are you going to have one big one where we can see your side by side comparisons?  I'd forgotten you even had that other mold where you removed the driving band.  This is great stuff and a matrix with all of your bullets, results at 100 and 200 yards and pictures would be something that should be archived.

Regards,
Mako

[w44wcf]

FCK,
You are most welcome. As I write this I see that NOE has 4 two cav, 1 four cav and 1 five cav left.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=1361346#post1361346

Mako,
After I test the NOE bullet @ 200 within the next month or so, I will put together a report on my findings with all of the bullets.  One thing I forgot to mention was a couple of months ago, I took some 44-40's loaded with the Accurate 43-215C / Goex FFG to Ridgway to try on the 300 meter javelina. It was a bit windy but it seemed to hold together pretty well at that distance.

w44wcf   

[Wolfgang]

All very interesing.  Thanks to all who posted.   

[Bryan Austin]

I now have an accurate mold on order!!!!   

[Fox Creek Kid]

I now have an accurate mold on order!!!!   

I just sent payment today for the NOE 432 five holer. If the Accurate bullet turns out to be more accurate we'll trade moulds S.J. Naturally, I'll expect you to eat the shipping as well.