Shooting in non western attire? (Turco-Mongol)

[Alp Arslan]

First off, an introduction. I am an OTR truck driver and a black powder shooter/hunter for many years. As a matter of fact, I trust black powder revolvers so much that my trusty Rem' 1858 is always part of my daily carry. I have always wanted to get into CAS/SASS and finally I may have time for it.

Now as I am aware, the uniforms must be period western or 19th century. But I have always wanted to participate in a mounted shooting match attired as a Mongolian or Ottoman Turkish steppe warrior. Kind of like a homage to my Altaic nomadic roots. What does the hive say?

Thanks

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

The terms "wild"  and "West" are relative so you have a point to argue.  The killer would be the specific time frame of post Civil War to 1899.  I googled Alp Arslan and noted that he was the victor over a major Byzantine army at the battle of Manzikert, 1071.  While the Empire lasted for another four centuries, it was never the same after Manzikert.  That battle also saw the demise of the expeditionary component of the Scandinavian mercenary "Varangian Guard"

http://www.crusades-encyclopedia.com/alparslan.html

BTW;  Were you planning to use a Turkish composite bow?  Maybe a better period to try would be as a Turkish Cavalryman opposing the Russians at Plevna during the summer of 1877 with their 1866 Winchesters and possibly No.3 breaktop revolvers, both in .44 henry rf. I think this would work for GAF!

http://www.militaryrifles.com/turkey/Plevna/ThePlevnaDelay.html

[shrapnel]

Forget it! That would be as out of place as a cowboy with a Winchester in a jousting contest. Recognize each event for what it is and participate at the level it was intended. We all have roots, but they are better suited to family reunions...

[Jamie]

While I recognize the fact that it would certainly look out of place, and therefore, perhaps be out of place and offensive to the sensibilities of many (and that ISN'T intended as sarcasm, seriously, especially after Shrapnel's comment) but by the same token, there was a decided presence of European royalty and aristocrats, including some from as far East as Russia, perhaps farther, in the latter period included in that 1866-1900 time frame so beloved of the CAS mindset (and rulebook.)  It does therefore serve as an interesting question as to where exactly the line would be drawn.  Consider the Zauves during the civil war and their point of origin. 
There are other examples, to be sure.  Turks and Mongols?  Not aware of any, but who knows?
Jamie

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Alp;  I love your website.

I was trying to hint at what Shrapnel said so susinctly.  Everyone has a line of ancesters all the way back to Eve.  Our history forms our identity and keeps us stable as we live in the present.  I can look back to Vikings, Varangians, Norman knights of 1,000 years ago, but also to western farmers, orchardists and ranchers in the 20th century Canadian West.  from there I can look back to the BC goldrush of 1858 and the eventual emergance of our province.

It would be a gas to dress up as a Jannisary, or a Swedish musketeer coming out of a snowstorm to terrorize Peter The Great's Russian soldiersin The Great Northern War, or even as an Imperial Guardsman in Constantinople.  But that is more Society for Creative Anacronism (SCA).

For SASS or NCOWS, stick to the American West or its parallel counterparts in Australia, Canada, Mexico, or perhaps even in South America.

I mentioned GAR, The Grand Army of the Frontier.  It is a group, also centred on cascity, that portray the military of the Victorian era.  Most members are also members of SASS or NCOWS or both, and actively shoot western action shooting - as cowboys generally.  That is why I mentioned Plevna, also the wars of Russian Imperialism and the Crimean War.  GAF might have a niche for you.

Meanwhile, put on your outfit and be a cowboy too!

As I walked out on the streets of Laredo.
As I walked out on Laredo one day,
I spied a young cowboy all dressed in white linen,
Dressed in white linen as cold as the clay.
"I can see by your outfit that you are a cowboy."
"I see by your outfit you are a cowboy too."
"We see by our outfits that we are both cowboys.
If you get an outfit, you can be a cowboy too."
    - Smothers Brothers

[Bugscuffle]

I can see it now........at the next mounted shooters meet, a mongol on a short legged longhaired pony with a recurve bow starts off the competition followed by a mounted knight in plate armor with lance and broadsword. Come on guys give me a break!

[PJ Hardtack]

Alp - To hell with the naysayers! Come out as you will and add a bit of colour.

It's a fantasy game and we get to indulge in our alter ego manifestations. There are WAY too many 'Drugstore Cowboy' clones in the game and some are so fanciful as to be unrealistic.
The historic photos show REAL Cowboys looking like what they were - hand to mouth working men clad in a mixture of towny and western period gear, whatever came to hand. A few weeks on the trail, living rough and you look liked you were ridden hard and put away wet.
I enjoy siddling up to some fancy lookin' dude who backs up lest he pick up dirt or cooties from me. You know, the ones who balk at doing their share on a Possee, leaving the brass picking and target set up to others. Hell, I know one who has several outfits (including military) and owns every gun possible. He WON'T shoot BP in his cap & ballers (just collects them and shows them off to the peons who envy him) or his cartridge guns, and doesn't come out to matches in the rain. How 'Cowboy' is that?
In my ML days, I shot flint wearing mocs, hand sewn breechclout and leggings. Bandana, no shirt on a warm day. One dude used to wear a custom set of leathers and took elaborate pains to keep them clean. We were playing 'Mountain Man' and he looked like what he was - a candy ass clown.
A Genghis Khan warrior from Mongolia or a Mounted Samurai would be a refreshing change from the tailored, yuppy clones that dominate the mounted game. Buffalo Bill included riders from the Steppes as part of his show - real or just good riders dressed up? Who cares, the public ate it up.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

(I couldn't locate the scene with tom Berringer and his wardrobe wagon.)

Here it is;



better still;

[PJ Hardtack]

Sir Charles

For the benefit of those on squirrel-power, dial-up 'puters who don't do the social media, what was your point?

Once At the Hefley Creek 'Palmer's Gulch' event, a US shooter/clothes horse showed up. He changed outfits four times a day! Even more remarkable, he changed the colour of his shotshells to match.
One batch were a light shade of blue that matched his shirt. They came from CHINA! Now that's 'Cowboy' .... not.

[Alp Arslan]

Thanks! Sir Charles.. and thanks to all for the replies

I am going to keep it cowboy during the events. That is 1866 to 1900 cowboy.

On a side note, I have to tell everyone that modern Mongolia, from the steppes of Hohhot where my family came from in northern China, to the Uyghur lands in Kashgar, bear a surprising resemblance to the American Old West. Over there, people still stick by the old ways. Men riding and corraling horses, herding animals, and wearing guns on their belts. Though you might see a rough old Turkish herdsman with a Kalashnikov now. Single shots and falling blocks are very popular and you can even see flintlocks and caplocks still in service in parts of Xinjiang.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Thanks! Sir Charles.. and thanks to all for the replies

I am going to keep it cowboy during the events. That is 1866 to 1900 cowboy.

On a side note, I have to tell everyone that modern Mongolia, from the steppes of Hohhot where my family came from in northern China, to the Uyghur lands in Kashgar, bear a surprising resemblance to the American Old West. Over there, people still stick by the old ways. Men riding and corraling horses, herding animals, and wearing guns on their belts. Though you might see a rough old Turkish herdsman with a Kalashnikov now. Single shots and falling blocks are very popular and you can even see flintlocks and caplocks still in service in parts of Xinjiang.

Afriend of mine, a real cowboy,  (Some say not - as his registered Quarterhorse mares are always pregnant & he doesn't get to ride!) has a client who brings oilfield drillers from Mongolia to Canada.  He visited a few years back and rode in a T55.  Next trip, he gets to shoot it!

PJ;  I think you did get the point. 

[Cookie]

@ Sir Charles, thanks for the head's up! I've never even heard of that movie, but I watched all the clips on YouTube, and it looks hilarious!

I just bought it on Amazon Streaming and will watch it tonight!

[Camille Eonich]

He's some quotes from the SASS handbook.  NCOWS rules are completely different.

The truly unique aspect of Cowboy Action Shooting™ is the requirement placed on
authentic period or western screen dress. Each participant is required to adopt a shooting alias
appropriate to a character or profession of the late 19th century, or a Hollywood western star,
and develop a costume accordingly.

CLOTHING AND ACCOUTERMENTS
Cowboy Action Shooting™ is a combination of historical reenactment and Saturday
morning at the matinee. Participants may choose the style of costume they wish to wear, but
all clothing must be typical of the late 19th century, a B-western movie, or Western television
series.
SASS puts a great deal of emphasis on costuming because it adds so much to the
uniqueness of our game and helps create a festive, informal atmosphere that supports the
friendly, fraternal feeling we encourage in our competitors.
All shooters must be in costume, and we encourage invited guests and family also to be
costumed. Shooters must remain in costume at all match events: dinners, award ceremonies,
dances, etcetera.
ALL clothing and equipment MUST be worn appropriately, how it was intended and how
it would have been worn in the OLD WEST or as seen on B-Western movies and television.

http://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/2011ROMaterials/SASSHandbook-17-2011.pdf


I think that it would be a heck of a lot of fun to find out what kind of history the people that you are interested in protraying had here during the period and build a character around it then dress the part.  One of the best things about SASS is that it does allow for fantasy and doesn't have a strict requirement for historical accuracy.  It allows us to use our imagination a little more.  You wouldn't believe some of the things that I have seen at costume contest.  The diversity just adds to the fun of it in my opinion.



Here's another link that I found that may give you something to think about.

http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?/topic/20600-mongols-reached-america-before-the-europeans/

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Someone mentioned mongol riders in a wild West Show.  Any photos?  Might be something to research.

[LoneRider]

Wardrobe wagon!! Kinda' looks like my closet yusta when I shot in B Western

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Alp Arslan;  Have a look at the current post in CHINOOK COUNTRY, Frontier shooting in Alberta.  Look through the first photo album, page 55 (I think) there is a Russian STRELTSY!  He's standind between  a Pre-WW I Light horseman and a Highlander at the dinner/awards ceremony.

[Drydock]

Come on over to the Barracks, find yourself a hex recievered Mosin, and have a blast at a GAF event!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Come on over to the Barracks, find yourself a hex recievered Mosin, and have a blast at a GAF event!

I'm holdin' out for a Long Lee Enfield, or better still a cavalry carbine.

[Drydock]

Rattlesnake Jacks probably got a half dozen or so he could lend ya . . .   

[wildman1]

Ya shoot Mosins in GAF? WM