Want to make belt/holster

[Rich]

I don't think I can deny my urge to start shooting CAS any longer and I think I would like to try my hand at building my own leather rig. The problem is I know nothing about building my own leather goods. I think I would like to build a speed or gamer rig. I will use this thread to ask any questions I may have along the way instead of creating or hijacking multiple threads!

To begin with what is a metal lined holster and why? Obviously I know it has some type of metal lining but what can you tell me about it? How thick of metal, what is the reason for the lining, etc.?

[Slowhand Bob]

Rich, there have been several recent threads on this type liners very recently and what some of us have used.  For my part, the few holsters I have made, used 24g galvanized steel and this seemed to be at the heavy end for hand forming.  "MY" opinion is that one can come pretty close to equaling the benefits of a metal liner just by using the right construction techniques and/or rawhide for added stiffness.

The gamer rig will be a pretty big challenge for a first time project and this does not even take metal liners into account.  Design and fit will become more critical than is necessary on some of the more historically based patterns.  As luck would have it there are also a few threads available that discuss this also.  There is a way to get around some of the many steps that we normally associate with a top competitive rig, if you like the look.

Way back when, Clint Eastwood ruled the big screen with his early Italian westerns, where he plays a bounty hunter.  The rig he wears could easily be considered the launching point for a poor mans competition rig.  His holster would be the centerpiece of such a rig, as this is where we can take a lot of short cuts away from the more advanced holster making techniques involved in competition holster construction.  If we can get past the need of a good working pattern, the two biggest obstacles would be leather lining and stiffening.  There is a way to cheat on these and I even know where one can get a leg up on some pattern help.

Step one would be to get the belt out of the way first, that is very often used as a first time project anyway and will give you a feel for doing a leather project.  I guess we woud need to know whether you are interested in a Traditional style belt or a Buscadero rig?  Later.

[Rich]

Bob,

Thanks for taking the time to provide some info. I really like the belt from 3:10 to Yuma. I think this would be a fun project to tackle to try my hand at.

[Rich]

What oz. leather should I use for the belt/holsters?

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

Bob,

Thanks for taking the time to provide some info. I really like the belt from 3:10 to Yuma. I think this would be a fun project to tackle to try my hand at.

Rich, I am new too this but I have now made 6 belts and holsters, no expert by any stretch of the imagination.  But I am going to throw in my opinion.

1st. Go to Will's site at http://www.willghormley-maker.com/OWC2.html and toward the bottom right you will see the pattern pack for the "Hand of God" rig.  Do not attempt this without the pattern.  Then if you click on the picture of the pattern pack, you will arrive at a step by step guide on making the "Hand of God" rig.  Read through at least 4 or 5 times while you wait for the pattern to arrive.  Then go get the tools needed as well as the leather and sit back and enjoy the ride.

I know a lot of folks have began making holsters without using a pattern, but I can honestly say, I would not have completed the first one without a pattern from Will.  Why fly blind when you can have a good pilot fly you there?

[Rich]

Rich, I am new too this but I have now made 6 belts and holsters, no expert by any stretch of the imagination.  But I am going to throw in my opinion.

1st. Go to Will's site at http://www.willghormley-maker.com/OWC2.html and toward the bottom right you will see the pattern pack for the "Hand of God" rig.  Do not attempt this without the pattern.  Then if you click on the picture of the pattern pack, you will arrive at a step by step guide on making the "Hand of God" rig.  Read through at least 4 or 5 times while you wait for the pattern to arrive.  Then go get the tools needed as well as the leather and sit back and enjoy the ride.

I know a lot of folks have began making holsters without using a pattern, but I can honestly say, I would not have completed the first one without a pattern from Will.  Why fly blind when you can have a good pilot fly you there?

That's an awesome resource, thanks! I'll order that very soon as I begin this project. Any idea what weight leather is ideal?

[Slowhand Bob]

The Black Canyon holster (next to the HOG pattern linked to by TwoWalks) calls for a lined holster that would total 12 to 14 oz in thickness.  My suggestion for a first timer would be to make a rough out holster similar to those early Eastwood holsters.  This gives a heavy holster with the smooth leather inside, just like lined, without fitting and sewing a liner.  This is saddle weight leather and will already be very stiff and if final wet forming is done with warm water it will end up molded very stiff and tend to hold its shape well.

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

That's an awesome resource, thanks! I'll order that very soon as I begin this project. Any idea what weight leather is ideal?

The pattern pack will tell you what weight leather too use, but if I am right I believe it is 10-12oz. Bob stated 12-14oz and he has far more experience than I have.   I would wait to order the leather after you get the pattern as it will tell you for positive.  Then again, Perhaps Will might chime in.

[Rich]

What is the benefit to a lined holster vs. a non lined holster?

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

What is the benefit to a lined holster vs. a non lined holster?

Well you just had to go there. 

In my own opinion, there is no real advantage to lined over unlined.  If the ruff part of the leather is really terrible, lining is a way to hide it.  If you have 8oz leather and you want 16oz leather lining will give you that.  Some folks believe lining the holster helps stop or slows down the wear on the gun.  I just am not one of those folks.  Some people believe that the lining helps with speed of draw as there is less resistance on the gun.  Again, I do not agree to a point because if speed is an issue I use silicon on the inside of the holster.

These views are strictly based on my own preferences and beliefs ... a huge number of people will give you their reasons for loving lined holsters.  Like most things, you need to try both and then make up your own mind.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I use single layer holsters and come in just fine in CAS matches, considering that I never practice. With some practice, I might crowd some of the top shooters. That said, I made a rig with holsters with two layers of 8/9 oz leather. The lining glued to the outside piece made them hard as rocks and after wet forming, you could almost drive over them and not hurt them. My times, however, didn't improve at all, so I think it's hard to beat a good fitting holster.

Welcome to the forum, Rich. Looking forward to your posts and seeing what you make.

[Slowhand Bob]

Good thoughts given on the lining and here is one more, you can bone the inside knappy surface until it feels as slick as lined.  Lining does add a relatively advanced step to the holster making process so be sure you are ready to take it on before starting.  One last thought, most of the speed shooters do go with the option of purchasing lined holsters. This is immaterial as long as you are making them for yourself though.

You are lucky to have more instructional material available now than has ever around before.  There are several really good books out, some great patterns, web site leather working buddys and my favorite of all, instructional videos.   Videos are the closest thing yet to looking over the shoulder of the journeyman and/or master.  You can find at least half a dozen holster making videos that cover the skills between new guy to pretty advanced  techniques and I have not seen one yet that doesnt have something to offer.  One last thought, do a quick check on thet there utube site fer some interesting freeby short video clips.

Books, patterns or tools, always ask before spending the big bucks and you can avoid some of the costly mistakes I have made over the years.  There are some bargains and substitutes out there that will save money and there are some times when it just plain makes sense to save a bit longer and buy the better quality.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=19338  - This guy has/had two books and a video out that were pretty unique.  He also had a line of patterns out that seemed pretty popular.  Do not know his status now though?

http://www.wrtcleather.com/  -  Chuck is one of the most artistic leather workers around and he has a generous down home way of teaching that even a stump like me can understand, look to his site for great inspiration, two super videos and several free  tutorials on leather and related skills.  Do not make the mistake of skipping over his Knife sheath video as it is as applicable to learning some advanced holster making skills as many other videos.

http://www.hidecrafter.com/hci/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1&Itemid=22  - I include this because at one time they offered the largest selection of patterns and how-to of anyone I knew of BUT their status has changed over the years and I have not done any buisiness with them in a very long time.  worth checking out and look for the Holster making videos they used to carry to see if still available.  The one by Hurst(?) had a good section on lining holsters.

http://www.willghormley-maker.com/  - What more can I say than what you will find on his site!  Just a look back over the past threads on this site will show Will to be an excellent teacher as well as providing the most popular holster patterns available in years.  His site also links you to great how-to that is not only applicable to the patterns referenced but for all holster making jobs.  A great friend and resource for the beginning or advanced leather worker.




 

[Springfield Slim]

In my personal opinion, if you have never shot any CAS shoots then making a top of the line speed rig is the wrong way to go. Not only are you trying to make the most diffcult holster right out of the chute, but you don't even know what you need yet, How about trying a more traditional holster, shoot a few shoots. and see what you actually need. I base this opinion on my experience of shooting SASS/CAS fro 12 years now, and making leather for cowboy shooters for 6 years. Experience counts, so start slower and you will end up with a better product.

[Irish Dave]

Rich:

Some well-made points above. Good advice from folks who've been there done that.

I'd also remind you that in CAS competition-- whether SASS, NCOWS or whatever --  it isn't the speed out of the holster that makes the difference in winning or losing (unless you go so fast that you accidentally drop the pistol and get yourself disqualified). Now maybe, if you are in that rarified air of the tip top pinnacle of shooters where .02 of a second is the difference between 1st and 5th, then maybe drawing speed might be a factor, but even then probably not (at least not in my 20 years of cowboy shooting experience).

If you like lined holsters for their own sake, by all means get/make one. Personally, I don't care much for them, but to each his own. I would counsel, however, against pursuing a lined holster because of a mistaken belief that it will make a difference at a CAS match.

In the heyday of "quick draw" shooting during the '50s and '60s, lined -- especially steel lined--  holsters were the cat's meow. Hence so many show up on old TV shows and movies. But keep in mind that was a different time and a very different sport from what CAS shooters do today.  

Just my 2 pesos worth.

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

   lots of good advice here Rich, hope you will enjoy CAS, and making your own gun leather really makes it special.


                       Welcome to the forum

                           Regards

                         tEN wOLVES

[Chuck 100 yd]

Rich, Welcome and I was in the same category as you a year and a half ago. Just starting CAS and wanting to make my own rigs having only done some lacing on a wallet kit 50+ years ago.
Several weeks of reading all I could find here and many of the links I found here gave me quite an education. The f.a.q. thread is just great for the beginner.
My leather work now is passable and when at a shoot people just look and admire it thinking it is store bought until they ask who sells such a rig? Their eyes light up when you say I DID IT !!
Is this something like what you want to build?

Not as difficult as you might think. You can do it!!  Have fun!! 

[LoneRider]

OK, so many say lining a holster won't help you draw faster. OK, maybe not, But, it's the re-holstering that'll get ya! On most non-lined holsters the leather will get soft and when you draw the pistol it'll closeup a little making re-holstering a PITA!!!!! You will have to reach down and open the top of the holster to get the pistol back in... think how many seconds that'll cost ya!!!! Better on the gun...maybe not, but a smooth leather lined (2 layers of smooth leather) will hold it's shape alot longer. If wet-molded correctly.

[Slowhand Bob]

I do think a lined holster is stiffer than unlined, all else being the same.  I end up using a lot of unlined holsters due to sperrymints gone bad, testing, etc BUT If I actually set out to make a set of holsters for my self, they are always lined and most often will include a main seam filler.  It could be argued as to whether speed is enhanced by much but one thing is a fact, most of the top shooters are shooting from holsters that use an exposed trigger guard, resting on a filled cut off.  Their holsters are also usually pretty stiff and can be locked into a position that is the same for every draw.  Evil Roy has said that he really wasnt that fast, but then talked about his average being around one second or slightly below, beeper to shot.  In my slow-mo old brain that is a fast draw!

Chuck, great looking rig and it does look like a fast one.  I normally do like to leave the toe open on this style holster as it saves a lot of fitting problems that could otherwise cause pinching at the muzzle.  Are you machine sewing?

[outrider]

First of all...welcome Rich.  I agree with most of the aforementioned comments...especially Slowhand, Sprigfield, and Dave...I have been shooting SASS for 19 years and have been doing cutom leather far longer than that.....I use both lined and un-llined holsters...depends on the period I want to depict....prior to 1900 most holsters were not lined...if you want period correctness then go unlined...go with what you want...but I agree you should not start out with a project beyond your capibilities...experience comes with time...

Two good references......1) Al Stohlman's "How to make holsters" at your local Tandy/Leather Factory and 2) the BIBLE......Packing Iron

Also do research on the old masters.....Collins....Heiser...Main & Winchester...Maniea...S.D. Myers..... all these old timers did beautiful leather work....