Full House Loads: Exceed SASS limits??

[Pulp]

A .36 Navy will break 1000 fps fairly easily.  You'd really have to squeeze some powder down into a '60 to break 1000fps, but I'm pretty sure it can be done.  I've gotten 1000+ with my Walker and a 45 grain spout, that actually throws a bit less when weighed. 

And I did get 1000+ out of my brass framed .44 with my homemade powder.  Probably not a good idea to repeat that test.

Since then I've killed my Chrony, and never have gotten around to getting it fixed.

[cpt dan blodgett]

Kinda always thought if I was hunting bear, I might just use a bear gun, the kind that has a stock that goes into the shoulder.

For our game is it really necessary to load to the max and eventually pay the price, either in wear n tear on the gun or the body.  Which is not to say there may be a reason to load hot, if one really wants to kill a deer or something with a 44-40 or something shooting BP, but the better choice, might be a slightly less hot load that the gun really shoots well.  After all a well placed .22 lr will get the job done, if fired from a short enough distance

[Mako]

A .36 Navy will break 1000 fps fairly easily.  You'd really have to squeeze some powder down into a '60 to break 1000fps, but I'm pretty sure it can be done.  I've gotten 1000+ with my Walker and a 45 grain spout, that actually throws a bit less when weighed.  

And I did get 1000+ out of my brass framed .44 with my homemade powder.  Probably not a good idea to repeat that test.

Since then I've killed my Chrony, and never have gotten around to getting it fixed.

Pulp,
What kind of powder were you using?  We went out one day to break the legendary 1,000 fps with a .36 ball and could not break 975 fps between three pistols.  We tried KIK, GOEX and Swiss (which we expected to break it) FFFg and they had similar results.  Two Ubertis and a Pietta and the high was less than 975 on a summer day when the pressures should be at their peak.

The load was over 27 grains and the balls were almost flush with the chamber mouth.  We had to use my loader instead of the loading lever and plunger on the pistols to assure they were below the surface.  My buddy was loading his on the frame and found he couldn't rotate the loaded chambers under the the barrel, so we pulled his cylinder and used the loader.

I'm not doubting you, but you must have faster air where you live.

I never attempted it with an Army model, I now load 30 grains pretty much as a rule and I know I'm less than 800 fps, probably closer to 750 fps, I'm pretty sure it would take a more energetic powder than commercial grade FFFg to break 1,000 fps with the Army model, what's different about your "home brew?"

Keep it safe, and be careful with that brass framed pistol, we don't want to hear a bad story, just fun ones.

~Mako

[Mako]

Kinda always thought if I was hunting bear, I might just use a bear gun, the kind that has a stock that goes into the shoulder.

For our game is it really necessary to load to the max and eventually pay the price, either in wear n tear on the gun or the body.  Which is not to say there may be a reason to load hot, if one really wants to kill a deer or something with a 44-40 or something shooting BP, but the better choice, might be a slightly less hot load that the gun really shoots well.  After all a well placed .22 lr will get the job done, if fired from a short enough distance

Cpt.,
I load 37 to 37.5 grains of FFg behind a Mav Dutchman in a .44WCF.  Any less would be violating a cardinal rule of loading BP cartridges by having air space in the case.  That's not a super powerful load by any stretch of the imagination.  It would make major in IPSC but that's about it.  I chronographed two USFA Frontier Six Shooters with those loads because I was worried they might be breaking 1,000 fps.  No worries there, they were in the 925-950 range out of 5 1/2" barrels, I get less than 1,290 out of the 24" barrel rifle.

The Big lube bullet and a Starline case limits you to less than 38 grains by volume of powder in a modern case. I don't consider those bear hunting loads, just honest cowboy loads.  I've shot many thousands of .45 ACP loads with an HG 68 bullet 200gr bullet at about 900 fps which really is about the same as the .44WCF load and never felt I was shooting Wart Hog loads, in fact it was just enough safety margin to assure a major classification no matter the weather, humidity or altitude.

If a person is going to shoot a .44WCF with a lighter load then you are going to have to back fill the case with something.  That is a lot of work when you could just use BP as the filler.  If a shooter is recoil sensitive there are better calibers available.  They could go .38 spl or .45 Cowboy spl. or even .44 Russian.  I don't try to be a Wart Hog, I usually shoot .44 Spl. and a pair of Army Models.  I like my shotguns to boom but I don't bust my patterns by overloading them.  In fact I have been shooting Fg in the shotgun and I get some nice fire and a lot of smoke without boosting the velocity.

I thought the whole point of shooting the Wholly Black was to make smoke.

~Mako

[Dick Dastardly]

I've not graphed mine, but I'm thinkn' my 7.5" ROAs may push the upper limit with all the FFFg powder that can be compressed enough by an EPP-UG bullet to clear the chamber mouth enough to allow the cylinder to rotate in the frame.  If anybody is interested in trying it I'd caution them to watch for blown caps if they are using the original Ruger nipples.

DD-DLoS

[Pulp]

Mako, I've never chrono'd a .36, just always assumed they would, due to the lighter ball, and stuff I've read through the years.
Well, you know what they said about assumptions.

I make my own charcoal from willow, which produces a hotter powder than Goex Musket Grade.  I don't have the capability of compressing the wet powder to increase density, so my powder is lighter than an equivalent amount of Goex, and much more compressable when loading.  In the case mentioned above I just filled the chamber to the rim, then seated a bullet.  When I saw the 1000+ on the chrony, I decided not to do that again.

On the other hand, I once made a batch and loaded it into .44-40.  I chronographed them out of my '92 carbine.  You'd hear the primer pop, following by a  kind of a whoosing sound, watch the bullet go toward the chrony, and have enough time to hope it would either make it over the chrony, or go under it.     Not sure why that batch was so slow burning, but I fed the flowers with the rest of it.

[Grapeshot]

Just wondering, does anybody know at point, and how many grains it would take to exceed SASS limits with FFg and FFFg?

Reason I'm asking, I was thinking of trying full house loads of real black in FFFg in my Old Army's (40grains) with Hornady 457 round ball, and 44.40 with 200grain boolit (about 35 grains or so of real black).

And 50 or 60 grains of FFg in my Walker.

Was gonna give some Diamondback a spin.

Well, I managed to load 40 grains, weighed, of Goex 2Fg in my .45 Colt cases.  Compressed it so I could seat a .454 PRS Big Lube Boolit and touched it off with a CCI Large Pistol Magnum Primer and managed to get a little over 900 fps out of it.

Did the same, (40 Grains Compressed of Goex 2Fg), with my .44-40 and a 200 grain Mav Dutchman big lube boolit.  Neither load exceeded the SASS limits.

I have heard of people using all the 3Fg they can get into a Walker Cylinder and seating a .454 RB on top of that, and exceeding 1000 fps.

[Dick Dastardly]

Beyond practical limits FFg simply blows out the muzzle of standard barrel length pistols.  In order to get the maximum velocity from them with Genuine Powder one needs to cram in all the FFFg black powder they can get under the bullet.  This is even more evident with lighter, lower sectional density bullets.  For example, a Big Lube®LLC EPP-UG bullet that weighs in at around 150 grains doesn't confine the pressure long enough for FFg to get going full tilt behind it before it exits the barrel.  With the faster burn rate of FFFg the pressure curve is more efficient in pistol length barrels and yes, the lil EPP-UG bullet can exceed SASS maximum velocities in 45 Colt pistols with 7½" barrel pistols.

This doesn't mean it's desirable to do, it only means that wisdom needs be used to avoid breaking SASS rules.

DD-DLoS

[wildman1]

I loaded my Walker that I purchased 9 days ago, with 50gs of Goex 2f, 454 RB. It Chronographed at 1058. A full load is 60gs of 3f. I'm guessing its going to be considerably more than 1058. WM