*socking* real black

[Cemetery]

What is *socking* real black all about?

I was told to do this with GOEX since it's so dusty.

Is this simply dumping a pound of GOEX into a sock and shaking it?  If so, is there any other types of material you can do this with, since socks have those little fibers that the powder can get caught up in?

[Noz]

it's not worth the effort. I also was recently told that a good portion of the "fines" in GOEX is actually graphite from the coating process.

[Blackpowder Burn]

Was this the same guy that told you if you didn't load by weight that you'd blow up your gun? 

[zymurgeist]

You can by screens for this (expensive)
You can also place it in a cotton cloth, a piece of old sheet will do, and roll it back and forth gently then pour the powder off. Dispose of the cloth safely.
I have no idea why you would want to do this though.

[Cuts Crooked]

"socking" was taught to me by none other than Bill Knight, AKA "The Mad Monk", chemist/sage of black powder. You can find a short treatise on the subject in the Dark Arts area of this board here: http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,9463.0.html

It works and I've done it with cheap powders for a long time now! It may not really be needed for our sport but it has made a big difference for me in precision shooting with big bore cartridge gunz and front stuffers.

AND I HATE CLEANING OUT THAT *&^%# graphite!

PS, screens won't get the graphite out! (fact is, you'll never all of it out, but you can make it a lot better)

[Mako]

It may not really be needed for our sport but it has made a big difference for me in precision shooting with big bore cartridge gunz and front stuffers.

That's exactly right!

So much of what is written about BP is for front stuffers or for long range precision shooting like BPCRS, people feel like they aren't doing enough if they just fill a case or chamber with powder and then compress a bullet on it. 

You tell it Cuts...

~Mako

[john boy]

Gentlemen, first of all, socking IMO is absolutely not necessary shooting CAS because of the short distances to the targets and the available size of the 'large' targets to be able to hit.  That said, shooting long distances, out to 1000yds or 1200yds for LR muzzle loaders, with 10 shots at paper targets trying to optimize the number of X ring hits within 44" of black on a 1000yd target is a different ball game -

X ring . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10.00"
10 ring . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20.00"
9 ring . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30.00"
8 ring . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 44.00"
... ones' reloads have to have uniform average velocity and low standard deviations (SD's) when shooting at these distances because an increased/decreased variable velocity reload can place the bullet in a different location on the target

Ok, inside a can of black powder ...
1.  One does a sieve ratio screening of the grain sizes in the grade of powder being used for the reload.  Depending on the manufacturer, the grade ratios can run the gambit from 10 mesh to 60 mesh in varying percentages.  The higher meshes are comprised of small micron sizes of powder and graphite
2.  Socking:  Removes the small microns of powder and graphite to yield a powder that is more uniform with the larger mesh grain sizes for several grades of black powder.  This aids the powder charge in the reload to have a more uniform 'better' average velocity and SD
3.  Graphite, carbon, is difficult to ignite.  The more loose fines of carbon in one's reload, the lower the velocity.  For long range shooting, one tries to keep the bullet in the higher subsonic velocity range

I sock several manufacturer's powders that I shoot, primarily those powders that are poorly polished (angular grains with excess graphite) and grade ratios that are not uniform (excess fines)

If one doesn't believe that there are excess fines of graphite/powder in many vendor's powders, pour a can into an athletic sock.  Then rock the sock back and forth for a couple of minutes - INSIDE, not outside.  Then look at your hands.  They will be 'black'.  Then take your handkerchief and blow your nose.  There will be black spots on it mixed in with the snot... fines of BP and graphite!  I've even blown my nose the next day and black spots were still produced on the handkerchief  
Do the socking out of doors to minimize your black snot and hands 

Quote by Bill Knight, aka The Mad Monk, Dutch Bill and E Ogre on the subject of socking, both historically and present day methods:

If you find the loose graphite objectionable in the KIK there is a very easy way to clean it up.

One shooter I know takes it outside.  He sets up a small fan.  He then pours the powder out of the can down through the air in front of the fan.  The free-falling powder is collected in a pan.  The blowing air carries away a lot of the graphite.  Low speed on the fan and watch not to get too close to the fan or you also blow away powder grains.

The other method is to take a tube sock.  One of the long ones, no holes in the toes.
Pour about 1/4 pound of the powder into the sock.  Role the end shut.  Hold each end of the sock in your hands and tumble the powder in the sock for 2 or 3 minutes.  Any powder dust and loose graphite is locked in the weave of the cloth.  You can do a few pounds before the sock needs to be washed.  But this will give you the cleanest powder you ever saw.
This is something of an adaptation of how powder was cleaned before packaging in 19th century powder plants in England and Europe.  They "reeled" powder in what was basically a cloth drum.  Looked like a huge fly fishing reel with a cloth drum suspened inside the frame work "reel".  They even had different types of cloth for use with different powders.

After the dirty 1998 Elephant shipment the plant in Brazil began to add large squares of cotton fabric into the powder batches when they were polished.  After the powder was polished the cloth was laundered for reuse.

Other companies simply gave the finished powder a final screening over a fine screen before packaging but that did not do as good of a job as the reel did.

 

[Fox Creek Kid]

http://www.cal-graf.com/screen.html

[fourfingersofdeath]

Sock it to me! Sock it to me! Sock it to me! LOL!!!!

[Cemetery]

I was just wondering cause I got a few pounds of Diamondback, and noticed right away there was no graphite dust, unlike GOEX.

But that *dust*, is it really graphite, or FFFFg?

[Fairshake]

I have been using Diamondback for about 9 months now along with the Goex that I still load. If you buy it by the case from Powder Inc. the cost to your door is less than $10 a pound. I have socked Goex that was loaded in my 45-70 meant for long range but not for any CAS shooting. The graphite is added to increase the way a powder flows through a measuring devise. The down side is that it slows the burn and makes the powder much harder to ignite in a uniform manner. That's the reason I went by what Dutch Bill advised and don't waste my time on powder that will propel a bullet just 10 yards or so. The two lots of Diamondback that I have used are very clean to shoot and have good accuracy.

[john boy]

But that *dust*, is it really graphite, or FFFFg?

Cemetery, it will be primarily graphite and dependent on how well the manufacturer screens out the powder fines in their various grades of powders.  Note what Bill Knight had to say when he tested the 1998 lot of Elephant which is now Diamondback under new ownership of the Elephant powder plant.

Diamondback is still made at the S/A Pernambuco Powder Factory in Brazil.  I don't have screen ratios for any Elephant but here's what Diamondback looks like after shaking the latest powder lots through certified laboratory standard sieves:
FFg  01-2127
20 mesh - 44.89% hold
30 mesh – 55.11% hold
40 mesh – Trace
Total =100%

FFFg 01-3309
20 mesh - 65.57% hold
30 mesh - 23.77% hold
40 mesh – 06.56% hold
50 mesh – 04.10% hold
60 mesh – Trace
Total = 100%

Note the consistency of the hold ratios.  And in particular, the amount of 40 and 50 mesh grains in the FFFg grade of powder.  I have never seen screen results with other vendor's grades of FFFg this high.  Usually a trace of 50 mesh and no 60 mesh.  Plus, for FFFg powder, the hold percentage for 30 mesh is the predominant amount.  Believe they added the 40 & 50 mesh grains to up the Closed Bomb pressure test numbers ... aka more velocity