Opinions on Rifle Type

[Blackpowder Burn]

I am preparing to purchase a single shot rifle for Cody Dixon type matches.  Being a staunch American chauvinist, I am going to buy an American product.  My interest centers around the rifles produced by Shiloh Sharps and C Sharps.  I want a relatively light weight rifle, as Cody Dixon is shot offhand a distances of approximately 100 yards.  It appears that both companies manufacture a number of rifles suitable for my purposes.  Shiloh builds the Military Carbine, Saddle Rifle, and Business Rifle that would be suitable.  C Sharps offers the Model 1874 Carbine Hunters Rifle, the Model 1875 Sporting Rifle and the Model 1885 Sporting Rifle that would be appropriate. 

My question to the good folks here is:  What are your opinions on the various models from the 2 manufacturers?  The Model 1875's from C Sharps are approximately $350 cheaper than the Model 1874's of either company.  Are there any advantages/disadvantages versus the 1874's?  Any real or perceived quality differences between the two companies?  I notice that C Sharps uses Badger barrels, while Shiloh Sharps builds their own barrels.  Any advantages either way?  I know the Badger is reputed to be the best BP barrel available.  I have a Browning 1885 with a Badger barrel and it is a tack driver.

I will shoot only black powder in the rifle, if that makes any difference in your comments.

At any rate, your comments and opinions will be of great interest to me.

[Marshal Deadwood]

If most of your competition will be off-hand,,beware too lite of a rifle.

I just shoot better with a heavier weight when working off-hand.

I have two Shiloh's, and love them. Have never owned a rifle with a badger barrel but I hear the same thing,,that they are outstanding !

As of late, I find the Shiloh '74 military rifle in 45-70 to be the cats meow for across the board shooting. It shoots equal to my Shiloh 32" heavy barrel Bridgeport rifle.

I agree on buying American. I do so, even if it cost me a tad more. I'm just willing to put my money were my mouth is on that deal.

MD

[Yellowhouse Sam]

You aren't going to lose points by shooting a shiloh barrelled rifle.  Like said above you don't want too lite a rifle but you sure don't want a crowbar out there either.  Balance is the key. Talk to the people at C Sharps and Shiloh and get their advice.  After all, they are in the business and have seen or heard just about every scenario you can think of.

My best offhand rifle is a ML that weighs 9.5 lbs and is slightly weight forward at the middle of the forearm.

[Blackpowder Burn]

I certainly agree that I don't want a "featherweight" rifle - just don't want a 12 pounder fitted out as a BPCR rifle!  I'll most likely buy it chambered in 38-55, as I'm set up to load that in volume.  The other obvious choice is the 45-70, as I'm also set up for that.  The 38-55 would be comfortable to shoot in a lighter rifle, of course.  I'm thinking of a barrel in the 26" to 28" range, depending on the particular model of rifle I select.

I'm particularly interested in any comments on the 1875 Sharps rifle.  It certainly has a price advantage.

[Marshal Deadwood]

Some day I HAVE to have a 38-55. I have never heard a bad word one about that calibre.

[Blackpowder Burn]

Marshall,

I have a Marlin 336 Cowboy in 38-55 that is a tack driver with DD's Big Lube bullets.  I'm hoping if I buy a single shot in the same caliber the same ammo would work well in it.  Life is rarely that simple, but I can hope.  The recoil is minimal even in the Marlin, so I'm quite sure that any configuration of Sharps or 1885 would be quite manageable.

[Ranch 13]

To which brand you won't be disappointed.
You will however be severly dissappointed if the rifle is to light, and is to hard to keep steady in the offhand position.  You will also be severely disappointed if your 38-55 doesn't hold up welll in the wind when the distances get long.
It's hard to beat a 45-70 for allround work and my 12 lb Shiloh #3 holds like a dream in offhand matches.
The C Sharps 75's are a very good rifle for the money. However it's probably best if you can get to a bpcr shoot and look at and talk to some of the folks and handle their rifles, to see which fits you best.

[Blackpowder Burn]

Ranch,

I agree that there are a lot of factors to balance here, thus my interest in input from experienced folks like you.  I have been to some BPCR shoots, and have a Browning 1885 in 40-65 set up for BPCR.  It's a tack driver and I love the rifle - it's fully capable of MOA or less.

My thoughts here were for a little lighter and handier rifle for fast close range work.  Shots will all be in the range of 100 yards, and won't stretch to the longer distances.  I know the 38-55 will perform well at that range, and a light rifle will be more manageable (or so it seems).  Of course, light is a relative term - it looks like all of these rifles will weigh at least 9 pounds.  I figure if I can shoot a clean match with a Marlin 336 cowboy or Marlin 95 cowboy (which are much lighter), I should be in good shape with any of the rifles manufactured by these companies.

I'm really interested in folks experiences with both manufacturers and the comparison of the Sharps 1874 and 1875 models.  Since I have the Browning 1885, I sort of tend to want something different, and thus am leaning to one of the Sharps models............ but the 1885 would be faster to operate............but the 1875 is cheaper..................dang, so many guns and so little money!

[Ranch 13]

Aggie, the C Sharps guns are a bit thicker in the forearm and the wrist than the Shiloh's, and the reach from the pistol grip to the trigger is a bit further on the CSA guns. My CSA 75 is just as fast at the wife's 85. The 75  is the Sporting and Target model has the heavy round barrel and is great for offhand, but that round barrel will deal you fits trying to get it to go to sleep in the xsticks. If I were to get another one I'ld have them leave the cheek piece off.
I have an Italian version of the #3 with a 32 inch standard barrel and a Shiloh #3 with a 30 inch heavy barrel. Both rifles have the military butt, the Shiloh holds really well for the offhand shooting.
The Shiloh is my favorite of the bunch , but I do have a Roughrider coming that may take the favored status.
Have fun making the selection, whichever one you get I don't think will be a bad choice.

[Blackpowder Burn]

Ranch,

Thanks, that's the kind of comparative information I was hoping for.  I'm curious - you mentioned that the Sharps 75 is as fast as the Win 85.  Don't you have to bring the hammer on the 75 to half-cock before ejecting and chambering another round, and then some to full cock before firing?  Whereas the Win 85 self-cocks when levered?  It seems the 85 would have a definite advantage in speed of function.

Given the slow speed of my synapses, the difference is really not going to make much difference to me, but I'm just curious about it.

[Ranch 13]

There maybe a few portions of a second difference but in the real world it wouldn't amount to much. It's a pretty fluid movement to fire , cock the hammer ,drop the lever ejecting the empty stuff another one in close the breech and go again.
And any speed advantage with the 85 is surely consumed and eleminated when you figure in the fouling control, either blowtubing or wiping.

[Blackpowder Burn]

Good points.  I think I'm beginning to lean toward the Sharps 75.........something different for my collection and less expensive.  Sounds like a win-win.   

[Ranch 13]

That's probably the best buy going in bpcr's.
When you order the gun also have them ship it with an extra transfer bar and firing pin. The transfer bar is the weak link in that system. They will replace them free of charge but that doesn't help if it lets go during a match.
I'ld also recommend the single set trigger.

[Blackpowder Burn]

I found a C Sharps 1875 Sporting Rifle posted on Gun Broker that was in a local gun emporium and went to look at it today.  It had the 30" standard weight octagon barrel.  The rifle handled well and felt about the right weight.  Very attractive and had a nice trigger.  I think I've found what I want. 

Now to peddle a couple of seldom used guns to fund the purchase..............

[Ranch 13]

You can send that rifle back to Big Timber and get it fitted with the set trigger if you think it needs one after you've shot it a bit.

[Pancho Peacemaker]

AD,

I have a variety of replica period long guns in 45-70 and I shoot Cody Dixon several times a year, so this word comes with hands on experience.  Around these parts, Cody-Dixon matches are like you described:  100 to 150 yard matches max.  Most matches are shooting 6 shots per stage for 6 stages.

My overall favorite long gun in my safe is my Browning Hi Wall BPCR.  It is 12 pounds and it is very "front heavy".  After shooting off hand for 2 or 3 stages, my arms get tired.  IMHO it is "too much" rife for a 100 yard, off hand shooting.

Lately, I've been shooting a Sharps (Pedersoli) carbine and a Browning (Miroku) 1886 SRC.  Both of these are fantastic choices for "mid range" off hand Cody Dixon matches.  I shoot Dixon with the Sharps Carbine and Cody class with the '86.

I also recently picked up an Trapdoor (Uberti) military rifle, 32".  It handles very nicely and is fairly light and very well balanced.  One of my buddies shoots a Trapdoor carbine and does well with it.

I realize that none of the rifles I am talking about are American made, but at least all the designs are American.

Hope this helps.


Pancho

[Blackpowder Burn]

Pancho,

I have the same Browning High Wall in 40-65 and the weight is why I don't want to use it for Cody Dixon - just as you mention.  I have the Marlin lever guns that I currently use, and they are quite accurate and it's easy to clean a match with them.  However, as with us all, I find myself wanting a new toy.  The hole I see in my batter is a lighter single shot that will work for Cody Dixon.  I'd never really considered the Sharps 1875 until now, but after getting to handle one yesterday, I'm very impressed with it.  And the price is not far from the Italian repros - you can get one new for about $1,500.

I also corresponded with C Sharps and found that although they don't catalog it, they build an 1875 carbine that weighs about 8.5 pounds.  I'm thinking one of those with a 26" barrel and chambered in 38-55 would be darn near ideal for this purpose.

Thanks for the input.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

Just to mix it up a bit, I just put a deposit on a Pedersoli Rolling Block .45-70 Silouhette Model... That way I get the double triggers without buying the Pedersoli knockdoff Soule Sites.  I am going to try shooting it like this but plan to see it under my tree at XMAS with an MVA Soule Site and tunnel front site with bubble ...

[Blackpowder Burn]

I just ordered one of the C Sharps 1875 Hunters Carbines yesterday.  I ordered the 26" barrel, single set trigger, Ideal rear sight and globe front sight with aperture.  I decided to stick with the 45-70 chambering.  A friend and I are discussing a possible buffalo hunt and I decided to go with the 45-70 in the event we do it.  The rifle is in stock and I should receive it in a week to 10 days.  This should be great fun.

[Marshal Deadwood]

Aggie,,,when it comes,,,we need PICTURES, pard !!!

One of the guys I know that shoots NRA BP,,,has a standard '75  C. Shaprs rifle. He wins a LOT with it.