3ed Model dragoon-Help

rebsr52339 · June 10, 2011, 11:13:35 AM

I picked up this Dragoon and it needs a back strap, trigger guard and main spring and grips. Other than the Gardone marks and the AE (1979) date stamp, the only other marking is the one shown in the photo on the LH side of the frame besides the under bbl BP markings and Made in Italy. It is the 4 screw shoulder stock model. It is also cut with a dovetail for a rear sight, missing, at the top of the bbl in front of the forcing cone. Anybody know if Uberti parts will fit this cannon? Minor fitting, that is the work, is not a problem so if we cannot identify it I guess I could order the Uberti parts from VTI. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. The gun is in remarkably good condition and does appear to be unfired and may be an old kit gun.

Mako · June 10, 2011, 11:31:31 AM

Armi San Marco...

Sorry, most Uberti parts will not fit without modification. What parts do you need?

The sight is not a standard item for Walkers, you can probably get one at some of the muzzleloader shops.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartList.aspx?catID=14&subID=167&styleID=767

http://muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/cgi-bin/mbscart/agora.cgi

~Mako

rebsr52339 · June 10, 2011, 11:41:21 AM

Mako, as in the original post the missing parts are the trigger guard, backstrap, grips and hammer spring along with the associated screws. I can do some fitting, filing etc but if the screw holes do not line up it could be a bummer. I can put a dovetail blank in where the rear sight goes, no problem.

Mako · June 10, 2011, 11:46:39 AM

Yeah, I realize that now, sorry. I answered too quickly.

I will compare the Uberti and Walker big parts, but I have a strong feeling they won't be interchangeable. I will be able to check late this weekend.

I might have a source for some of the ASM parts, I don't know if they have any of the Walker parts left.

~Mako

Mako · June 10, 2011, 11:55:31 AM

Okay, now I remember it was S&S Firearms that bought out the remaining Euroarms stock. Armi San Paolo, not Armi San Marco.

http://www.ssfirearms.com/

I was told they had ASM parts as well. I couldn't tell you if they did or not, you should contact them.

Regards,
Mako

rebsr52339 · June 10, 2011, 12:23:34 PM

I just talked to S&S and they have no parts for this gun, at least the ones I need. Just to clarify it the gun is a 3ed model and I suspect some of the Walker parts will fit, maybe even the trigger guard and back strap. Thanks and I will keep looking.

Mako · June 10, 2011, 01:11:33 PM

Reb,
Let me start all over again...

I have been in presentation and using my iphone to keep from falling asleep. I will read through this more carefully when I get to the pad or a computer.

I can't see the entire message in the small window and I am jumping to conclusions. I have an ASM Walker and I guess I got it stuck in my head.

So... How do you know it is a third model? Without the trigger guard you really can't tell if it is a 2nd or third model. The good news is that you can make it either one.

I don't have an ASM Dragoon but I'll compare the Uberti Walker and the Uberti Dragoon to the ASM Walker I have.

~Mako

rebsr52339 · June 10, 2011, 01:24:55 PM

Mako, because this version has the dovetail notch for the rear sight, I was under the assumption that it would be a 3ed model. It is cut for a shoulder stock, and I "think" I remember some of the 3ed models had the rear sight. Could be wrong. I seem to remember that the rear sight had two leafs. I don't know, maybe my memory is just too faulty these days. Sure would like to get this gun in condition again. I guess you are right and I could fill in the dovetail like I mentioned before and make it a second model too. I guess it gives me more options. Later and thanks for the help.

Mako · June 10, 2011, 01:48:05 PM

Reb,
The back strap and trigger guard won't fit. The grip shape is different where it meets the frame. The Walker and Whitneyville Dragoons have the same frame and Grips, the other Dragoons are different form those two. Also the first two had iron back straps as standard like the later Army Model, the Dragoons normally had Brass back straps and trigger guards.

There were some Iron Back straps on a few Dragoons, probably Iron trigger guards as well.

Are you assuming the Dragoon is a 3rd model because of the stock and sight cuts?

~Mako

rebsr52339 · June 10, 2011, 03:35:14 PM

Well to bad nothing will fit. The bbl is 7 1/2 inch.

Yes the assumption is a 3ed because of at least the sights. Maybe I will look at some of my colt books and get reeducated again. It has been a long time.

On page 88 of Larry Wilson's book, The Peacemakers, there is a photo of a pair of 3ed model dragoons, both with rear sights, round back trigger guards and one with a shoulder stock. They were presentation guns.

The other thing is I am not sure how close the Italian makers were to creating, at least the appearance of, a specific model they were producing. Not that they had to. I only have about a dozen reproductions etc so you fellows would have a better handle on that.

Major 2 · June 10, 2011, 04:18:25 PM

I have good news and bad ...

First the good.... you can get Uberti Back strap & TG in Brass and it will not fit, but it's in doable range, you will braise up the holes & redrill.
I believe the front one of the 3 TG holes does line up.
It will be some file work too, but not as bad as some kits used to be....

Now the bad.... I ~~have~~ had a Back strap left over from a Prop Pistol to Carbine I made for " North & South"
it was an ASM ( the part laid around here for years ) it was lost in my barn fire....funny I didn't even remember it till I saw this thread... $:-\$

It a worthy project, if you're handy

rebsr52339 · June 10, 2011, 04:35:42 PM

If you wish to sell it, shoot me an email and your address and I will send a check or a USPS MO. Thanks. It will at least get me going and I can see what is up.

Major 2 · June 10, 2011, 05:35:08 PM

Please re-read "it was lost in my barn fire"

if I had it you could have it

sorry

rebsr52339 · June 10, 2011, 05:38:24 PM

Sorry Major 2, I thought it was "lost" and you found it again.

Drayton Calhoun · June 10, 2011, 10:15:08 PM

Read another post in here about who bought up all the old ASM parts, but I cannot remember who. I too have an ASM 3rd Model, also missing the rear three leaf sight. I just made a brass blank and put it in the dovetail slot. Trust me, the rear sight was just shy of worthless.

rebsr52339 · June 11, 2011, 05:06:27 AM

Drayton, sure would appreciate it if you would let me know about the parts where abouts if you remember. S&S in NY does not have any and Dixie is uncertain of the application of theirs.

If anyone out there has a derelict ASM Dragoon or the grip parts they want to part with shoot me an email. I'll be on the lookout.

Drayton Calhoun · June 11, 2011, 07:43:56 PM

Deer Creek Products is who I understand bought all the remaining ASM parts, although I have not confirmed this. Good Luck!

rebsr52339 · June 12, 2011, 04:04:02 PM

Thank you. I will try and check them out.