BP Blowup

[Noz]

When dealing with Black Powder and static electricity, I prefer to err on the side of caution. Who knows what the actual level of concentration of dust in the air needs to be to get it to combust from a static spark? I certainly don't. And who knows what twist of fate may somehow put just the right concentration of dust in a confined spot while somebody is pouring powder from one container to another on a dry day? I don't, but I will not reject it happening just because of some photos on the Internet.

For shame, Driftwood! Don't you know that everything on the internet is the absolute gospel truth?
If it weren't, Al Gore would not have invented it.

[Mako]

...Black Powder mills used to blow up with alarming frequency. Goex blew up a few years ago. Anti static shoes and clothing were a requirement in many powder manufacturing facilities after the dangers of static sparks and dust in the air became known.

Personally, I get nervous by those who cavalierly state they have read all there is to know about static discharge and Black Powder and declare it is all a myth.

Everything is a myth until somebody proves otherwise...

Driftwood,
Do you have some information about the Goex explosions I am not aware of?  These are the explosions at the Goex facilities in Moosic and later in Minden since Goex bought out the DuPont operation.

July 15, 2006: Fire and "small explosion", no injuries
Nov. 3, 2004: Goex explosion, no injuries
Oct. 31, 2001: Goex explosion injures two employees
Jan. 25, 2000: Goex flash fire and explosion burn one employee
Nov. 5, 1998: Goex explosion kills one worker
MOVE TO MINDEN, LA
April 16, 1997 Belin Plant, kills two workers,  operation closed in Moosic, PA
June 4, 1996 Belin Plant

None of the assigned causes were static electricity.  The closest to it would have been the 1996 explosion in Pennsylvania which was caused by a lightening ignited fire.

The majority of the explosions were initiated by fires started by equipment.  Others were caused by things such as stones, sticks or debris in the mixture causing sparks and/or heat under the rollers.

I can understand your reluctance to dismiss static electricity based on your background, but don't let your previous experience in an unrelated field obscure your objectivity.  I worked for almost ten years in the semiconductor industry with memory chips.  I too am keenly aware of the destructive force of static discharge on those devices.  I can also tell you that the video you mentioned would have fried anything we made or handled.  And I am sure if you looked at any device under magnification that had been exposed to such a discharge that it would have looked like the backside of the moon.  Yet, with all of that discharge the powder didn't do anything did it?

Something to think about...

~Mako

[Drayton Calhoun]

Let's not forget 'trouser lightning' that nearly set a hotel on fire back in the early 90's!

[fourfingersofdeath]

We had an industrial Prison officer at a max security prison I worked at was grinding away at a piece of steel and his cotton drill pants caught fire, amusing the prisoners (and other staff) no end.

[Cuts Crooked]

   

[wildman1]

If yer tryin ta swat them flies Cuts yer on the wrong end a that hoss.  WM

[Leo Tanner]

Anyone who has concerns about static can ease their mind by grounding themselves.  They make a wrist band for the electronics industry that has a lead on it you clip to a grounded object.  When not loading you could shove the lead up into your sleeve.  I don't do this but I know it negates any static charge.  The things you learn working in a micro chip fab.

[Mako]

Anyone who has concerns about static can ease their mind by grounding themselves.  They make a wrist band for the electronics industry that has a lead on it you clip to a grounded object.  When not loading you could shove the lead up into your sleeve.  I don't do this but I know it negates any static charge.  The things you learn working in a micro chip fab.

I grounded myself once, MAN THAT HURT!

Then the military decided I need to be grounded, that hurt even more...

~Mako

[Leo Tanner]

Old joke...what da ya call an electrician on an aluminum latter,..

A fuse.

[Drayton Calhoun]

Old joke...what da ya call an electrician on an aluminum latter,..

A fuse.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Anyone who has concerns about static can ease their mind by grounding themselves.  They make a wrist band for the electronics industry that has a lead on it you clip to a grounded object.  When not loading you could shove the lead up into your sleeve.  I don't do this but I know it negates any static charge.  The things you learn working in a micro chip fab.

As I said earlier, I spent 24 years in the microwave industry, so I am well aware of wrist straps. I am also very familiar with grounded work stations, and it takes more than just a wrist strap. To completely avoid static discharge, the entire work station needs to be grounded. This includes the bench it self and anything on the bench. Anti-static mats are available for bench tops. And while you are at it, keep any paper or wood away from the work station, they are great static charge generators. Also, don't even think of putting your powder in a glass container, as some folks think is a good idea. Glass is another terrific static generator. True anti-static work areas have a high degree of humidity in the air, to allow static charges to discharge through the air before they build up a high potential. Further, these wrist straps and other grounding devices are not connected directly to ground, there is always a resistor built in to protect the worker in case he touches a live wire. He is grounded after all.

No, I do not do all these things. However I also do not discount the possibility that a static spark might perhaps be able to ignite Black Powder. I try not to load BP on really dry winter days. And I never put a pound of Black Powder directly onto my press right next to my head, unless it is in a measure specifically designed for Black Powder.

[Fox Creek Kid]

...And while you are at it, keep any paper or wood away from the work station, they are great static charge generators...

Wood?    My drop tube kit has a wooden bowl on top of the funnel.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=159432&CAT=3798

[Mako]

Wood?    My drop tube kit has a wooden bowl on top of the funnel.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=159432&CAT=3798

Kid,
Everyone knows BP has 15% charcoal in it, and charcoal comes from wood, therefore if it comes into contact with wood, or any wood product there will be a high probability (and my lucky numbers today are 16-33-44-16 and 63) of instant ignition.

This is a rarely reported phenomenon because most people this happens to are instantly vaporized and their wives simply don't report it.

~Mako

* Drop tube comes from the Greek word "Dorfumis" which means long ugly vase.  The original gun barrels resembled long flower vases, it so happens the term gunpowder was also derived from the description of the powder put in long ugly vases.  Everyone knows that a vase left on an unprotected wooden table will leave a ring and mar the surface.  Later when Anglicized, the term doofuss came to mean someone who would let gunpowder touch something made from a product of wood.

It's all very simple.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Kid,
Everyone knows BP has 15% charcoal in it, and charcoal comes from wood, therefore if it comes into contact with wood, or any wood product there will be a high probability (and my lucky numbers today are 16-33-44-16 and 63) of instant ignition.

This is a rarely reported phenomenon because most people this happens to are instantly vaporized and their wives simply don't report it.

~Mako

* Drop tube comes from the Greek word "Dorfumis" which means long ugly vase.  The original gun barrels resembled long flower vases, it so happens the term gunpowder was also derived from the description of the powder put in long ugly vases.  Everyone knows that a vase left on an unprotected wooden table will leave a ring and mar the surface.  Later when Anglicized, the term doofuss came to mean someone who would let gunpowder touch something made from a product of wood.

It's all very simple.

You don't fool me, Mako!!  

[Bottom Dealin Mike]

I have tried several times to set B-P off with static electricity...haven't succeeded yet

[Mako]

I have tried several times to set B-P off with static electricity...haven't succeeded yet

It's all about the wood... "Carpe Dorfumis !!!"

[Driftwood Johnson]

Laugh all you want. If it don't conduct current, then it holds a charge. That's what static electricity is. Wood is a lousy conductor. So are paper, glass, rubber, and a bunch of other stuff. They are excellent static generators.

I already said that I do not follow all the procedures for a properly grounded workstation as dictated by the electronics industry. But I do take a few precautions.

Whether or not one can actually ignite Black Powder with a static spark, I still prefer to err on the side of caution.

But I know it ain't for everybody. Do as you will.

[Abilene]

Actually, both wood and paper tend to be non-charging, probably due to their ability to hold moisture.  See the Triboelectric series here:
http://amasci.com/emotor/tribo.html

Of course, various finishes on either paper or wood can cause them to become more charging.

[Cuts Crooked]

Actually, both wood and paper tend to be non-charging, probably due to their ability to hold moisture.  See the Triboelectric series here:
http://amasci.com/emotor/tribo.html

Of course, various finishes on either paper or wood can cause them to become more charging.

How odd! I always thought that water was a good conductor of electricity.......I sure as heck won't stand in it when I'm werking on sumthin electricical in nature!

[Mako]

How odd! I always thought that water was a good conductor of electricity.......I sure as heck won't stand in it when I'm werking on sumthin electricical in nature!

Cuts,
This is serious business, we all have it wrong.  It seems we can't use conductors or insulators, some people would then ask what is the alternative, are we relegated to using gated semiconductors?  But alas, I'm sure that won't be right either.

Then, it finally dawned on me...we can't use normal matter, we have to use DARK MATTER,  If fits.  Dark matter must be what is required for working with the stuff of the Darksiders.  Well, that and a shrubbery...

~Mako