colt 2nd generation cap and ball pistols

[Fingers McGee]

These 2nd generation C&B Colts have always interested me as a collector, but I've never taken the plunge and bought any.

How is the market price on these guns (NIB - collector grade) lately?


Pancho

If you keep an eye on GB, you can pick them up at less than Blue Books estimated value for a NIB 100% condition model.

Addendum.  If you're going to start collecting NIB examples, you need to get  copy of the Seventh Edition Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Arms and Dennis Russell's Percussion Colt Revolvers - The Second Generation colectors handbook and price guide #6.  Both dated 2011.

[Doc Sunrise]

The average pieces are obtainable for some very decent prices.  NIB usually holds up well in pricing, but many good deals are available.  Some of the more rare pieces that are factory standard runs have seen pretty nice premiums, and have amazingly shook loose from some collectors' hands and have seen the light of day.  Special Editions don't seem to hold up as well as many Colt Special Editions don't. 

[jphendren]

I have a 2nd Gen. Colt's 1860 Army, with the fluted cylinder.  I bought it back in 2007 NIB for $750.  I also had a 2nd Gen. Walker that was NIB, I stupidly sold it for $500, now everyone I see the seller is asking $1,200+.  I wonder if they are selling for that?

The 2nd Gen. Colt's are finished beautifully.  My 1860 has some of the prettiest color case hardening I have seen on a revolver, and the bluing is awesome as well.  The action and trigger are perfect, just as smooth and good as my 3rd Gen. Colt's SAA, and my USFA SAA's.  I completely consider them Colt's, as far as I am concerned I own a "real" Colt's belt pistol of 1860.  Now I want to pick up another Walker.  I've fired the 1860 quite a few times, it handles and points just as nice as an SAA, very light too compared to my Uberti Walker.

Jared

[Fingers McGee]

I have a 2nd Gen. Colt's 1860 Army, with the fluted cylinder.  I bought it back in 2007 NIB for $750.  I also had a 2nd Gen. Walker that was NIB, I stupidly sold it for $500, now everyone I see the seller is asking $1,200+.  I wonder if they are selling for that?

Jared

Jared, If you keep an eye on GB, a more reasonably priced Walker in the $600-$700 range pops up from time to time. 

[Texas Jack]

can someone of you tell me how these revolvers are judged from a legal point of view? Are they considered modern guns or are they free to send them to Germany if I buy one?
Backgrouns is, that I'm from Germany and I'm strongly interested in a 2nd generation Colt 1860 Army. I already own two 1851 Navies and one 1861 Navy and today I purchased the two gun set of Lee and Grant Navies but 1860 Army are so rare and hard to find. I wonder if it is possible to buy such a gun from a dealer in the US without the trouble of an export dealer.

Happy Trails
Texas Jack
SAS life # 55314

[Major 2]

can someone of you tell me how these revolvers are judged from a legal point of view? Are they considered modern guns or are they free to send them to Germany if I buy one?
Backgrouns is, that I'm from Germany and I'm strongly interested in a 2nd generation Colt 1860 Army. I already own two 1851 Navies and one 1861 Navy and today I purchased the two gun set of Lee and Grant Navies but 1860 Army are so rare and hard to find. I wonder if it is possible to buy such a gun from a dealer in the US without the trouble of an export dealer.

Happy Trails
Texas Jack
SAS life # 55314

AS far at the international legalities go...that is a question someone in the import realm .
in the States they are not coincided modern guns or subject to the BATF laws of transport , transfer or sale...
( though a few States { NJ, NY , Calif. }  have draconian laws pertaining to their sale, ownership or transportation )
Here cap & ball (non conversions) may be sold , shipped & owned without registration or restriction  except the 3 states above and perhaps Ill. & Conn.

I invite you to reach out to:  

Long Johns Wolf Wolf@1960NMA.org

FAX +49-6192-901293

He can answer every question on import and even The Belgian 1860 "Belgian Colt"

Welcome to the Cas City Board

[Long Johns Wolf]

Major2, Texas Jack & campfire: Legally C&B revolvers are no "guns" in the US like they are in Germany.
No export license is needed to ship them over there.
The issue is there are only a few forwarding agents that are prepared to go through the paperwork of shipping them.
It will cost you close to $ 200,00 to get them over here.
Long Johns Wolf

[Texas Jack]

Major2 and Long Johns Wolf,

thank you for your answers. You confirmed what I was thinking about the cap & ball revolvers.

@Long Johns Wolf
when you look at my updated signature you will see that we know each other. I will call you and talk to you when I'm back from my business trip.

[Long Johns Wolf]

Kid, I look forward to your call.
Long Johns Wolf

[Texas Jack]

When Colt produced the 2nd generation cap and ball revolvers they also produced black powder accessories kits in all necessary calibers to complete the wooden presentation cases for the guns. Does sombody here know what was the price for these kits and presentation cases?

[Professor Marvel]

Major2, Texas Jack & campfire: Legally C&B revolvers are no "guns" in the US like they are in Germany.
No export license is needed to ship them over there.
The issue is there are only a few forwarding agents that are prepared to go through the paperwork of shipping them.
It will cost you close to $ 200,00 to get them over here.
Long Johns Wolf

My Dear Herr Wolf -
It is my understanding that C&B revovlers are  sold "over the counter" in France with no paperwork to basically anyone.
Would it be possible & legal  for a German resident to take the train to France and pick an 1860 up and carry it home?

yhs
prf mvl

[Long Johns Wolf]

Guten Morgen, mein verehrter Herr Professor,
This German citizen residing in Germany may travel to France by car, train or plane, and buy a percussion revolver there without any hazzle.
But if this same person elects to bring the piece home to Germany he
# MUST possess an appropriate gun license covering the purchase & the
# EC transfer permit to bring it legally into the country.
We Europeans like to make life complicated sometimes.
Long Johns Wolf

[Coffinmaker]

Texas Jack,

Someone will want to throw a rock at me for saying this.  I will anyway.  Before I retired, I spent about 20 years as a CAS gunsmith.  SO:

Considering the cost (upwards of $200,000 USD) just to get a 2d Gun Colt imported to Germany, you should first consider this.

The Second Generation Colt Percussion guns are just very fancy Uberti's.  Uberti provided all the parts which went to a 3rd party contractor who assembled them.  Colt took NO PART in building the 2d Gen Colts.  The only thing to distinguish the 2d Gen Colts from Uberti are the roll marks stamped on the frame and barrel.

You would be much better served to start with Uberti, do the necessary things to make it right and then go play with it.  The Second Generation Colt Percussion is absolutely NO investment.

Coffinmaker

[Pettifogger]

When Colt produced the 2nd generation cap and ball revolvers they also produced black powder accessories kits in all necessary calibers to complete the wooden presentation cases for the guns. Does sombody here know what was the price for these kits and presentation cases?

Not to be snide or anything but the Colt Gens were out 40 years ago.  The prices then bare no relevance to the prices now.  If you just want to know as a matter of interest look up an old catalog on the Internet.  They are available for a few dollars.  The flasks were made by Dixon in England.  I think Dixie Gun Works still sells them.

[Professor Marvel]

Guten Morgen, mein verehrter Herr Professor,
This German citizen residing in Germany may travel to France by car, train or plane, and buy a percussion revolver there without any hazzle.
But if this same person elects to bring the piece home to Germany he
# MUST possess an appropriate gun license covering the purchase & the
# EC transfer permit to bring it legally into the country.
We Europeans like to make life complicated sometimes.
Long Johns Wolf

Guten Abend mein lieber Freund Herr Wolf,

Danke Schoen! Keine Bange !

It is all about Proper Order and Proper Procedures.
If one wishes to stay away from trouble one wants to make certain the paperwork is
"alles in ordnung"

Well, As my friend Bernd Das Brot says: "Mist! "

Grüß
prof marvel

[Texas Jack]

Texas Jack,

Someone will want to throw a rock at me for saying this.  I will anyway.  Before I retired, I spent about 20 years as a CAS gunsmith.  SO:

Considering the cost (upwards of $200,000 USD) just to get a 2d Gun Colt imported to Germany, you should first consider this.

The Second Generation Colt Percussion guns are just very fancy Uberti's.  Uberti provided all the parts which went to a 3rd party contractor who assembled them.  Colt took NO PART in building the 2d Gen Colts.  The only thing to distinguish the 2d Gen Colts from Uberti are the roll marks stamped on the frame and barrel.

You would be much better served to start with Uberti, do the necessary things to make it right and then go play with it.  The Second Generation Colt Percussion is absolutely NO investment.

Coffinmaker

Coffinmaker,

I'm not throwing stones but I don't agree with you.
From my research I have learned that the 2nd Gen C&B Colts in the early years (1971 to 1973) are build at the Colt factory. Rough castings of some major parts are used from Uberti, everything else was made at Colt. Later production was made by Lou Imperato at his Iver Johnson plant in NJ under contract from Colt. Quality inspection and marketing still was done at Colt's and all of the 2nd Gen C&Bs will letter as Colt, which I can't believe that Colt would do it for a gun produced at Uberti.
Beside this, I own some Uberti C&Bs and now several 2nd Gen Colts. The difference is obvoious, much better finish, case hardening and blueing is much better and best of all, the 2nd Gen doesn't have these silly "Black Powder Only" stamp and the unnessecary model name on the barrel. All stampings on the 2nd Gen are close to the originals which is by far not the case with Ubertis or any other Italian C&B revolver.
Talking about investment, when I compare prices for 2nd Gen and Italian C&Bs in US and in Germany you realize at least two or three times the price of an Italian C&B for a 2nd Gen C&B. In most cases you realize even more in Germany.

[Texas Jack]

Not to be snide or anything but the Colt Gens were out 40 years ago.  The prices then bare no relevance to the prices now.  If you just want to know as a matter of interest look up an old catalog on the Internet.  They are available for a few dollars.  The flasks were made by Dixon in England.  I think Dixie Gun Works still sells them.

Pettifogger
you are right, the price now show the market value. The last MSR of the guns is mentioned in The Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Arms, but there is no hint on the prices of the accessory kits.
After reading your post I searched the Internet and found an old Colt catalogue with the C&B models for a few Dollars which I ordered. So your post was helpfull, thanks for that. 

[Fingers McGee]

When Colt produced the 2nd generation cap and ball revolvers they also produced black powder accessories kits in all necessary calibers to complete the wooden presentation cases for the guns. Does sombody here know what was the price for these kits and presentation cases?

Dennis Russell's Percussion Colt Revolvers - The Second Generation  collectors handbook and price guide lists the accessories and cases along with original MSRP and current (as of the 2011 publication date) values.

[Texas Jack]

Dennis Russell's Percussion Colt Revolvers - The Second Generation  collectors handbook and price guide lists the accessories and cases & along with original MSRP and current (as of the 2011 publication date) values.

Finger McGee,
thanks for that information, do you have the ISBN number of that book? I can't find the book, not on Abe book, Amazon nor on eBay. 

[Fingers McGee]

You have to purchase it from Dennis.  His email is colt-blackpowder@earthlink.net