Holster Leg Ties......

[Rube Burrows]

I tried a search and found nothing so sorry if this has been talked about. Also posted this on the history section but then thought about putting it here.

When did leg ties become popular on holsters.....or did they at all during the old west days?

I looked through my book "Age Of The Gunfighter" and of all the holsters pictured there is only one Holster that has a leg tie on it and it is noted that the holster may not be original to the belt.


Any ideas?

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre]

         Holster tie downs came about because of the Hollywood "Buscadaro" holster and belt. When they first started dropping the holster that low, it would flop around, and when the actor tried to draw his gun, it wouldn't let the gun come out smoothly.
         I'm not saying that somebody didn't have them in the old west, but if so, they were rare.
         And by the way, they are NOT comfortable! Yes, I tried one. 

[Arizona Cattleman]

Rube, I am no historian, but I believe ties were a Hollywood manafistation for quick draw.  I could be wrong, but my 2 cents worth.

AC

Looks like someone beat me to it....

[Rube Burrows]

         Holster tie downs came about because of the Hollywood "Buscadaro" holster and belt. When they first started dropping the holster that low, it would flop around, and when the actor tried to draw his gun, it wouldn't let the gun come out smoothly.
         I'm not saying that somebody didn't have them in the old west, but if so, they were rare.
         And by the way, they are NOT comfortable! Yes, I tried one. 

A Kirkpatrick rig I have came with them and I was thinking about putting them on another. No, they are not all that comfortable but they do keep the rig in place.....which I sometimes have a hard time doing otherwise. Was just curious when they came around. Looking at all the pics I found I started to think it was a Hollywood type thing since they wore theirs lower. Period pics show holsters worn much higher....around the actual waist for the most part.

[GunClick Rick]

Fastdraw baloon shooters have used them for awhile,the old timers i have seen pics of always had the shooters ridin high,said to have less draw time.

[Trailrider]

Never say, "Never!"  But leg ties were pretty uncommon before Hollyweird "invented" the drop-loop buscadero rig. The famous Western artist Charles M. Russell did a pencil sketch of a "scout" with a tied-down holster. But I can't recall and can't find the reference as to exactly when he did the sketch.  He was friends with Will Rogers and other latterday stars up to he death in IIRC 1926.  So he might have been adding in the tie based on movies that had emerged.

On the other hand, the studion photo of sherrif Comodore Perry Owens shows him wearing that uncommon rig with a wide belt and a holster worn butt forward and hanging way low on the belt compared with most rigs.  If you look closely, there appears to be a hole near the toe of the holster where a tiedown might have been attached.  But there is no tie on the holster in that photo.

There are numerous problems with a tie down.  If you don't snug it down tight enough it doesn't serve the purpose of holding the holster down when the gun is drawn.  If you do snug it down, the danged thing starts putting pressure on the femoral artery, which cuts off the circulation.  No, you won't get gangrene, but you could wind up cramping.  If you sit down on a horse, etc., the gun tends to tip back as the hoslter follows the leg, so you either untie it or something.


That's why they seldom, if ever, used a tiedown.

[Cliff Fendley]

I commented over on the historical forum but what is said here is on the money. Another thing if anyone has buckled on a buscadaro rig and tried to do any work, climb up on a horse, etc? You'll certainly know it's there. Plus many of those rigs are being made so thick and heavy. Strap on a period correct rig up high the way they wore them with a wide thin belt (especially a money belt) and it is comfortable to wear all day. You can sit, run, climb around or whatever. The gun sits down in the holster not banging on everything, no need for a hammer tie to hold the gun or a leg tie on the holster. I'll many times walk out back to shoot and find myself back in the shop working on something hours later still wearing my rig.

[Skeeter Lewis]

Modern-day cops wear their handguns pretty high, too. For the same reason probably - it's more practical. And you can still get to it fast enough.

[Rube Burrows]

Upon second look last night I was able to find another holster along with the Perry Owens one that looks like it has a hole for a tie down in it and also the one that actually has a tie down on it.

Owens photo, which I now see what you are talking about and it looks like it has a hole.





Other that I found with a hole but no tie down.



and then the one that has the tied down but it should be noted that the description of the rig says that the holster may not be original to the belt.

[Cliff Fendley]

How old do they document that belt to be in the last photo? It looks awfully early 20th century to me, it certainly is late in the period.

The second pic also has a hole in the top of the holster so who knows what they were doing with it.

With the length of that first photo you would assume the hole is for a tie down but since he wasn't using it makes you wonder if it was tried and didn't work out. As I stated before I've found wearing a low hanging rig with it tied to your leg out in the woods or working you find its not real comfortable because it binds up when you kneel or sit down or have to step up high. As Skeeter said modern day law enforcement and even civilian carry gun leather has changed back to high ride compared to what was seen up until recent years.

I'm sure someone somewhere probably used or at least tried a leg tie in the old west for whatever reason.

[joec]

The main difference I see between the modern (police not movie western) type holsters over the high rigs of the 1800's is the cant in them. The older version for side arms seemed to have a straight hang or slight forward cant while the current ones tend to have a rearward cant. It is probably do to the length of modern semi auto pistols compared to the average revolver of the day. Just an observation nothing more.

[Cliff Fendley]

On a closer look that holster he is wearing also has a hole about half way down, I would be willing to bet that holster wasn't designed to be worn in that way and he didn't wear it in that way.

That appears to be a Mexican loop holster and he has unlooped it and has the skirt tucked up under the belt. Possibly just for the photo because it looks like he's covering up the skirt with his hand. Notice the lighter shades in the two spots of the pouch where the loops cross over where the pouch hasn't been exposed to the sun and elements.

I bet that was all done for the photo. It was a big deal in those days to have your picture taken. I don't know how he was using the holes but possible some way of tying the skirt to the pouch because of the wide belt. I'll bet those holes are NOT for a leg tie.

[Rube Burrows]

How old do they document that belt to be in the last photo? It looks awfully early 20th century to me, it certainly is late in the period.

The second pic also has a hole in the top of the holster so who knows what they were doing with it.

With the length of that first photo you would assume the hole is for a tie down but since he wasn't using it makes you wonder if it was tried and didn't work out. As I stated before I've found wearing a low hanging rig with it tied to your leg out in the woods or working you find its not real comfortable because it binds up when you kneel or sit down or have to step up high. As Skeeter said modern day law enforcement and even civilian carry gun leather has changed back to high ride compared to what was seen up until recent years.

I'm sure someone somewhere probably used or at least tried a leg tie in the old west for whatever reason.

The caption for the belt and holster with the tied down reads as follows;

Belt- Belts complete with cartridge loops became common by the late 1870s. This ornate version is quite late.

Holster- The holster may not be contemporary to the belt, but its of the type in common usage then.

[Rube Burrows]

On a closer look that holster he is wearing also has a hole about half way down, I would be willing to bet that holster wasn't designed to be worn in that way and he didn't wear it in that way.

That appears to be a Mexican loop holster and he has unlooped it and has the skirt tucked up under the belt. Possibly just for the photo because it looks like he's covering up the skirt with his hand. Notice the lighter shades in the two spots of the pouch where the loops cross over where the pouch hasn't been exposed to the sun and elements.

I bet that was all done for the photo. It was a big deal in those days to have your picture taken. I don't know how he was using the holes but possible some way of tying the skirt to the pouch because of the wide belt. I'll bet those holes are NOT for a leg tie.

I def see what you are talking about with the lightness of the holster in the places where the loops may have been covering.

[Cliff Fendley]

He's covering up the skirt of the holster with his hand being careful not to cover up the cartridges. I believe they are showing off that double row cartridge belt.

[St. George]

As to the small holes visible on the other holsters - I know it's hard to imagine, given today's sort of reverence to 'All Things Collectable' - but 'back in the day' it was common to nail things like leather to a museum wall display.

Seriously...

And outfits like Bannerman's nailed or wired or drilled-through all manner of leather equipment and weaponry onto wooden plaques in order to sell them as decoration items for a man's den or library.

These things just didn't have the same cachet that they do today and they were treated accordingly.

You may just be wondering about the underlying background reason for a hole, when all it really is, is the way it was affixed to something for a display.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!