Which is the 'right' .45 Colt bullet for accuracy

[Henry4440]

After shooting my old Vaquero with the 'forbidden stuff',  i was very unsatisfied with the result. So i want to cast my own bullets.
Now i'm looking for a new mould.Which is the 'BEST for ACCURACY' ?

Lyman

454190


452664


452424


452490


What is your experience with the .45 Colt.

[Galloway]

I had two early 2000 era 45 rugers that wouldnt shoot worth a dang with any bulk packed hardcast bullet. This being due to undersized throats i figure. For the heck of it one day I tried 20/1 bp lubed bullets behind a charge of unique and got 1'' groups. My only advise would be try some softer cast bullets if your having trouble. Good luck

[Cuts Crooked]

Well.........you gotta define accuracy.

You see, you can go for the most accurate for a single shot, the most accurate for a few shots, or the most accurate over an extended string of shooting.

A few years back I cast a bunch of Lyman 454190 and Big Lube .45s for a pard to use in a torture test. Working from memory here: The 454190 was the most accurate when the barrel of his rifle was cleaned between each shot, however after an extended string of shooting the Big Lube bullet maintained it's accuracy far better than the Lyman bullet. In short, when the fouling builds up, the Lyman bullet starts throwing fliers, but the Big Lube just keeps on shooting pretty much the same.

Soooo....if you are bulls-eye shooting and have the luxury of cleaning your bore after each shot, or maybe for hunting purposes, the Lyman 4542190 has the edge, but if you're doing CAS stuff the Big Lube is a better bet.

Also, I personally tried the 452424 in my rifle and in my Remmies......it sucked with black powder!  Pretty fair with that other stuff though.

[Ranch 13]

This bullet cast from wheelweights shoots very good in all my 45 colt guns, and carries plenty of lube for either type of powder.
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,2501.html


   







 

[StrawHat]

I have had good luck with 454190 and also the 452490 from which I removed the GC.  Both delivered good accuracy.  (The best accuracy I have gotten was with a SAECO 453 mold which casts a 235 grain full wadcutter bullet but that was not one of your choices.)

[Pappy Myles]

heres my deal.........I use lyman 424664 in both my OM rugers 5 1/2 barrel and my uberti 73 24".     for the longest time I kept having fowling about the 20 inch mark down the barrel of the rifle.  so after a couple of years of beating my head against the wall, I switched to spg lube.    The Lyman bullet will hold just enough.   I use this for both titegroup, trailboss, and pryodex rs.
The only reason I use pryodex is I ended up with a lot of it for free....................

After I switched to the lube. no more rifle problems

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Lonesome Henry, do you see the beginning of a pattern here?

Accuracy depends on SO MANY variables,  it's impossible to say much more than generalities.  What is most accurate in YOUR guns with YOUR lot of powder and primers using YOUR choice of bullet weight and with ... well, you get the picture.  The TYPE of shooting also plays a BIG part:  Bullseye shooting for pure accuracy vs. CAS Match accuracy vs.Hunting accuracy vs. whatever.

I don't mean to rain on your parade and I applaud you for asking and researching for yourself.  Generally, heavier bullets moving at moderate velocities (and the term "moderate" depends on many factors, including caliber) will be more accurate.  Black Powder itself (or the BP subs) isn't equal, so you may get better accuracy using Swiss over Goex, and in the case of subs - Triple 7 over Pyrodex, etc.

Do you see?  I have settled on 250 gr. BigLube boolits as the most accurate (for my purposes) projectiles.  I cast most myself using wheelweights but with added pure lead to make the alloy softer.  (About 9-10 on the most commonly used lead hardness scale.)  I shoot CAS matches (mostly NCOWS where we shoot at targets usually farther than the typical SASS distances) and use Goex 3F powder and (usually) Winchester or CCI primers, and I make my own lube from beeswax & olive oil.  That's the most accurate from my guns (average accuracy) which include Colt & Remington cartridge revolvers, Winchester '66 & '92 repro rifles, and a lone Ruger Old Vaquero.  This is what works for me.

Besides, half the FUN is experimenting to see what works best ... but it can be flus-trating, too!

[w44wcf]

In a handgun, like both the 454190 and the "Big Lube".


For my 45 Colt rifle I recently decided to design a .45 Colt rifle bullet following  the profile of the original 44-40 rifle bullet, the successful 427098.  

I worked with Accurate Molds and recently received the 3 cavity mold.  I made some bullets and am now waiting for some decent weather to test....hopefully within the next week or so.

w44wcf

[Steel Horse Bailey]

In a handgun, like both the 454190 and the "Big Lube".

For my 45 Colt rifle I recently decided to design a .45 Colt rifle bullet following  the profile of the original 44-40 rifle bullet, the successful 427098.  

I worked with Accurate Molds and recently received the 3 cavity mold.  I made some bullets and am now waiting for some decent weather to test....hopefully within the next week or so.

w44wcf

I look forward to your report, WCF!

[Henry4440]

Got my Lyman 454190 today.Will cast tomorrow some bullets in different alloys.
Friday i will shoot them with with loads from 28 - 32 grs Swiss3.
Lets hope that i get better groups than before.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy, Henry.  What were the results you got already with the other bullets that were "unsatisfactory?"

Good luck  with your tests.  What kind of accuracy are you hoping for?  (Vs. what you already got and with what?)

[w44wcf]

In a handgun, like both the 454190 and the "Big Lube".    For my 45 Colt rifle I recently decided to design a .45 Colt rifle bullet following  the profile of the original 44-40 rifle bullet, the successful 427098. 

I worked with Accurate Molds and recently received the 3 cavity mold.  I made some bullets and am now waiting for some decent weather to test....hopefully within the next week or so.

w44wcf

Tested the new bullet at 100 yards a few days ago.  Using 36 grs of 3F powder, 5 rounds grouped in 2 1/2" with 3 of the bullets impacting  in about 1"     I'll be testing more at an extended distance next week (300 meters).  Hopefully the accuracy holds.
I'll update with the results after  that.

w44wcf   

[Fairshake]

Lonesome Henry, I used the 45 Colt in SaSS matches and used the 454190 with NASA lube for black powder and they worked well on the stages. The 454190 is the original style bullet for the 45 Colt but the Moulds have been changed to a more rounded and shallow lube groove design which is not good for BP shooting. You did not say what powders or your uses for the bullets which makes giving you the correct answer rather difficult. If you are using BP then the best thing to do is what I did and what 44WCF posted and that is having a custom mould cut that will meet your needs. I always had better long range results with the 454190 style than the Big Lubes and I feel that is because of bullet design. The big lube does not have enough bore riding surface to be stable. At the closer range of SASS it does very well as your longest shot is 50 yards. If you are using smokeless powder(I think that is what that stuff is called)then any of the shown bullets will work. The accuracy you are trying to receive also went with out being stated. Each gun and person will have different results with different guns and bullets and powder. In the 45 Colt I prefer to use 2F powder and others prefer 3F. Both will work with the 3F giving more velocity and recoil. Accurate moulds has been a blessing to the casting cowboys as he makes custom moulds for the best price and his work is first class. I wish you the best in your search. Later David

[w44wcf]

Henry,
How did the 454190's work out for you?

Pards,
Had a chance to shoot the 45-260 Accurate Molds bullet at 300 meters recently out of the .45 Colt Marlin Cowboy. As you can see below, it follows the same design as the vintage 427098 44-40 bullet that as proven to shoot accurately at longer ranges.

Fairshake turned me on to Accurate Molds last year and his statement "Accurate moulds has been a blessing to the casting cowboys as he makes custom moulds for the best price and his work is first class. is spot on. Thank you, Fairshake.

As it turned out, it seems to shoot as well at 300 meters as does the 427098! Once I got the right sight setting,
bullets impacted the steel javelinas with good regularity.  

Don't ya just love it when a plan comes together........


http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-260B-D.png

w44wcf
     

[w44wcf]

On a recent trip to Ridgway, I set one ram at the front of the rail, making it harder to knock down.
Distance: 200 meters (219 yards)
It took 2 impacts and the third knocked it over. I would have liked to reset and shoot more for group but I was running out of time......

The new bullet shoots well!

 

w44wcf

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy w44wcf.

Nice pattern on that ram.  How's it shoot after 40 rounds without cleaning?  I'm thinkn' paper patched bullets may shoot as well for three shots.

DD-DLoS

[w44wcf]

Howdy DD,

Thank you for the "nice pattern" complement.  I would expect it is like the 427098 in the 44-40 with Goex....accuracy will fall off after 15 rounds or so. I use your "Big Lube" bullets if I use Goex in the 45 Colt.

With the 2 lube groove bullets, I use SWISS and find that accuracy will be maintained for 50+ rounds.

w44wcf

[Bottom Dealin Mike]

I guess everybody has different experiences. Over the years I've run several extended shooting tests on bullets with black powder. Every time I've done it, I've seen significant accuracy degradation after 10 rounds, and shotgun like groups by 30 rounds with two exceptions:

1. Any good bullet seated over a grease cookie.
2. Big lube bullets like the PRS and Mav Dutchman

With either of those methods I haven't found an upper limit of how many shots you can fire before accuracy degrades significantly.

[w44wcf]

Howdy Mike,

Thank you for your information.  I have had a similar experience with most black powders myself.

Interesingly, In the 1875 Winchester catalog there is a replication of a 30 shot target made at 110 yards by Doc Pardee using the Winchester 1873 rifle. The group for all 30 shots is a bit under 4". He states that "The firing was done without wiping, which proves the Winchester to be steady in her performance......."

So, in my .44-40 Marlin Cowboy (24") with the vintage 427098 , I tried a number of black powders .... Goex 2F, Cowboy, 3F, Express FFG, Elephant 2F, 3F, Schuetzen 2F, 3F  and all "fouled out" in 10-15 rounds with a ring of hard fouling extending an inch or two back into the bore.

Obviously, Winchester used better b.p. than these.....especially since their swagged bullets held only 1/2 the lube that the 427098 does!

Along the way I tried SWISS and it worked where the others have failed.  I can shoot 50+ rounds with no "foul out" and continued good accuracy in the .22L.R., .32 Long Colt, .38 Special, .44-40 and .45 Colt rifles using the original 2 lube grooved bullets.   

I even pulled some .44-40 bullets from early cartridges, cleaned out the dried out lube and relubed with SPG. The lube grooves were only .015" deep.  I used Swiss and they shot very well and no "foul out".

I'm hearing good things about the newer lot of KIK....that they use the same type of charcoal that Swiss does. I will be testing in the 44-40 soon. We shall see......

w44wcf    

[Cuts Crooked]

I'm hearing good things about the newer lot of KIK....that they use the same type of charcoal that Swiss does. I will be testing in the 44-40 soon. We shall see......

w44wcf    

I thought I read that KIK was outta the business, went bankrupt or sumpthin?