Cleaning After BP?

[ashlyngr]

  I'm a little perplexed. In all that I'm reading, how should I clean my Cap and Ball Revolvers? I know Hot Water is best, but should I do a detail strip, submerge my revolver, or do the basic strip to clean?

Thanks,
Old Overholt Rye

[hellgate]

I only strip down my guns maybe once a year or if there are problems suggesting a cap frag in the "works". You can use plain hot water but I would recommend a dab of a detergent du jour to give it more cutting ability. I use spray bottles with auto windshield washer spray to hose down the cylinders and barrels. I punch the chambers & barrel, rinse with rubbing alcohol (or spray off with canned air) then dry with Q-tips. I then oil the barrel, chambers, frame with an oil soaked patch and drip oil or spray WD-40 down into the innards. I have an Uberti '61 Navy that I could not get apart (into the trigger, bolt, hand, etc) for about 15 years so after cleaning the big 3 parts (barrel, frame, & cylinder) all I could do was drip the oil or WD-40 down into the insides after cleaning everything else. I finally got into a home with a padded vise where I could get the trigger/bolt spring screw out and clean out the internals. Guess what? There was a TON of black mush, a cap and a couple of cap fragments and NO RUST. The gun shot fine for about 2000 rounds before I got it apart. So, my opinion is the complete strip down (including nipple removal) is unnecessary and may discourage a lot of shooters from using C&Bs because of the work involved to clean them. I take the nipples out ONCE and smear the threads with anti-seize grease and reinstall them. Maybe once a year do I ever take them out unless there is an ignition problem.

[rickk]

Ballistol is worth trying in place of WD-40. It seems to work well cleaning BP, and it is very water soluable.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Nver use HOT water but rather tepid as you will get flash rusting with hot water. 

[Montana Slim]

Pretty much what Hellgate said...but I only use hot water, dishsoap and WD-40 after dry patching.
Been cleaning this way for quite some time....any using water from boiling down to cold will work....no rust on any of my firearms that I use this procedure on (except for the few used ones I bought & previous owners were not meant for BP shooting). My preferred temp water is the warmest available that doesn't cause pain.

WD-40 is as good as anything to displace the moisture. I apply a light film of CLP if I won't be using the firearm for more than a month or so.

Slim

[Wagon Box Willy]

I've tried the whole gamut of cleaning and have settled on only cleaning the innards every once in a while.  I think the frequency that you use the gun has a lot to do with how you'll clean it up.  Because I am not a regular shooter my guns are used pretty infrequently and therefore I feel I have to go a little extra when cleaning and preserving them.  I typically use hot water and Moose Milk to clean them up without disassembling the action and then spray full strength Ballistol into the action and parts.  My new procedure now is to wait till the gun is dry and then clean it up with a very wet patch of Eezox, wipe it clean and then apply the preservative coat of Eezox and let that dry.

-Willy

[Blackpowder Burn]

I just purchased an ultrasonic cleaner (Hornady Magnum Lock-N-Load version) and used it for the first time yesterday cleaning my revolvers.  I disassembled the guns and put the cylinder and barrel assembly in the bath with the Hornady gun parts cleaning solution and ran it 20 minutes.  Then I removed those parts and put the frame in for another 20 minutes.  The grip wouldn't fit in the bath, but the upper part of the frame would. This cleaner also has a heater and I set the water temp at about 110 degrees.  Everything came out squeaky clean - literally.  I also cleaned the internals of my Marlin 1895 CB with the same results.  I then applied a light coat of Remoil to the bore and externally and I'm ready to go again.

This is the best tool ever sold for gun cleaning.  It gets to stuff you can't touch with a rag, brush, toothbrush or toothpicks.

[Jamie]

Just a word of caution: there is a world of difference as to cleaning needs depending on what part of the US you happen reside in.  Summers here in Western New York are seriously humid, and were I to avoid some internal cleaning, I'd have a rusted chunk in the guns innards in short order.  As it is, I clean with water, as hot as I can get it - things dry nearly instantly that way, and I pull the locks off my caplock rifles, and pretty regularly drop the trigger guard, always detail strip the barrel assembly in my cap and ball revolvers.  And I always pull the nipples after pumping hot water in and out of the chamber through them.  I've bought a number of cap and ball revolvers that took a lot of work (a gunsmith in one case who ruined 2 of his own nipple wrenches before he modified one to work) to remove one or more nipples from these used guns.  Now, while I suspect those nipples had never been removed, and whatever lubrication had once been on the threads came exclusively from the factory, in the gun in the first place, I still would recommend considering the local in which you live as a determining factor in cleaning issues.  The arid nature of many parts of the southwest contributed dramatically to the preservation of old guns.  There is also considerable speculation about the nature of black powder back in the day, and the fouling nature thereof.  There were, as I believe it was either Mike Venturino or Phil Spangenberger (sp?) who said it, at least as many black powder brands and grades in the middle to late 1800's as there are various smokeless powders available today.  They fouled to different levels, were consistent from one batch to another at different levels, etc.  Some were clearly easier to clean up after.  Never having used Swiss or some of the others, I can't speak to their characteristics, but Goex, Elephant, and Pyrodex P are powders that you had better clean up after well, and swiftly, at least from the time Winter breaks until the snow is flying regularly here in Western New York.  Your mileage may vary, as they say.
Jamie

[Noz]

My cleaning is similar to hellgate's but I use Ballistol.

[Montana Slim]

We have adequate humidity here during Iowa summers...but, not so much in the winter.

To prevent cones from becoming rusted, liberally apply a water-displacing product (WD-40 is cheep) after rinsing/drying with water.. Dry-patch or blow-dry the excess (an air compressor is right handy). After each cleaning session I use the wrench to loosen each cone about 1/2 turn, then snug it back to the seated position. If you're getting some lube in there each time & loosen/tighten as described, you'll not have a problem, unless you put them aside (no shooting or cleaning for an indefinite period). A very light shot of lube into the action ( I use 2-3 drops into the hand slot) will prevent the innards from rusting without dismantling for a detail clean.

I detail clean each percussion revolver no more than once per year (sometimes less often)....unless I have to go in to remove a wayward cap fragment or adjust/replace a part.

I posted this low-maintenance approach on the original CAS-L back in 1995-96 & it was not received well...no, not at all. Today, you'll see a number of others are using a similar process, with variations according to product/application preferences.

I also have low-maintenence techniques for cleaning lever guns and shotguns fired with BP. Using the "search" funtion will turn them up.

Regards,
Slim

[Crow Choker]

All the above work, the main thing is that ya clean em after shooting. I have a few times in the past put cleaning off for a day or two, but I sprayed the 'bejiggers' outa the gun with WD-40. Upon cleaning, no rust could be found, but this method is not advised except for times when cleaning can't be done right away. 10-4's to Fox Creek ref not using super hot water, I just let the hot water tap run until it reaches a temp that is comfortable to have my hands in, then clean away, besides if you can hang onto the parts after dousin' em with super hot water, ya got more bark on yer hide than I do!.
Over the past 40 yrs of shootin, I've used hot water and dish soap, hot water and products for cleaning blk powder arms, products on their own, hot water and Ballistol, etc. Even have used cold water and cleaner. All work, some better than others, alot of debate from shooter to shooter. Water and dish soap is the cheapest way to go. Since starting to use Ballistol around five yrs ago, I  usually do a hot water bath and dish soap, hot water rinse, followed by "Moosemilk", dry, and oil. Might be overkill, but it gets em clean and never any rust. I always pull the nipples(hate this more than anything), it gets the nipple area cleaner on the outer portion of cylinder and prevents any water from getting into the cylinder nipple threads by leaving them on, allowing a potential rust problem. Use toothbrush and pipcleaners to clean. Always put a dab of grease on the threads before putting back on. Always blow everything off with compressed air before final oiling, just a little prevention. Ya gotta make sure there isn't any moisture built up in your air tank though, otherwise you'll be blowing water onto the metal parts.
I just do a complete tear down around once a year unless needed, ie getting caught in a rain, shooting a particular gun more than usual, a rare cap frag getting in the works, etc. Sometimes I shoot WD40 into the 'guts when needed to clean and lub things up, then let the excess drip out, wipe excess off, and a few drops of gun oil to needed areas. Works for me, just my "two drops of oil". Yours to good shootin'! Crow Choker

[ZVP]

 
To clean I use warm running water , Windex, and Dish Soap. I dry the parts I can get to with paper towels and then use an old Hair Dryer to blow hot air into those areas I can't reach.
Being new at Black Powder shooting I used the preservative that I had on hand the first couple cleanings and it has worked spectacurilly!
I use CLP Break-Free to coat all surfaces of the revolvers and it works great1 It migrates very well into crevaces and through passages to get to internal parts giving them a coated and corrosion-free surface. It seems to wick away moisture pretty well as I have had NO rusting issues even if a revolver wasn't shot again for up to a month!
Break-Free has worked well as a protectorant for me for years  on other guns, it's a good formula!
ZVP

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Some of you guys are working much harder than you have to.

It gets just as humid here in the Land of the Pilgrims as it does anywhere else. I seldom clean my guns the same day I shoot them. Just too lazy. And I don't spray anything into them, I put them away dirty. I also don't usually clean my guns between days of a two day match. I clean them when I am done.

First off, we ain't using corrosive primers anymore. Corrosive primers were part of the reason that Black Powder fouling caused so much rust 100 years ago. I own several rifles and revolvers that are at least 100 years old. Yes, they have pitting in the bores, but they were shot with corrosive primers. These days, with modern non-corrosive primers, BP fouling is no where near as corrosive as most folks think.

It's funny, I was talking to my mechanic the other day, and he was poking around under my car (2001 Forester) and he said it looked pretty good as far as rust is concerned, despite all the salt they put on the roads around here in the winter. I mentioned that I never wash it, and he said that he thinks those power sprayers that spray water up from underneath the car may do more harm than good. If water is forced up into nooks and crannies where it usually does not go, it may wet down any salt that got in there and start rust. But if the salt is just left alone, it may not cause any rust at all. Then he mentioned a technique that one guy up in New Hampshire uses. He squirts oil up inside the car, everywhere you can imagine. He drills a hole in the doors, and squirts it up in there too. Then he lets the excess oil drip out for a day before you pick up the car. All that oil coats the steel and prevents rust.

Funny thing is, I have been doing the exact same thing with my BP guns for years.

If you squirt water inside the gun, you have to get it out again, or it will cause rust. Way back in 1968 when I bought my first C&B revolver I used to take it completely apart every time I shot it. Cleaned everything. I tried the scalding hot water routine and got flash rust everytime as the the hot water evaporated off the steel.

Much more recently I have discovered that if you soak Black Powder fouling with oil, it becomes harmless. Difficult as this is to believe, Black Powder fouling that has been soaked with oil will not cause rust. What happens is you rob the fouling of its ability to absorb moisture from the air. Normally, BP fouling is a dry, crusty deposit and it attracts moisture from the air. When this happens, the water held tight against the steel is what causes the steel to rust. But if you soak the fouling with oil, it looses its ability to attract moisture from the air. Its like a sponge that is already soaking wet, it cannot absorb any more moisture. But BP fouling left in the gun that has been soaked with oil will just remain inert inside the gun.

These days I clean my guns with a mixture of Murphy's Oil Soap, Hydrogen Per Oxide, and Rubbing Alcohol. I buy them all in the supermarket and combine them in equal parts.  I call this mixture Murphy's Mix, others use different names. When you examine this stuff you will find that a great percentage of it is water. The alcohol is about 20% water and the Per Oxide is about 94% water. It is the water that does the actual dissolving of the BP fouling. The alcohol acts as a drying agent, speeding up evaporation, and the 3% Per Oxide gives it a little bit of fizzing action, to help lift the fouling. When it evaporates, the oil soap leaves behind a nice oily film, that covers both steel and fouling. This protects the steel, just like oil always does, and it soaks any remaining fouling so that it cannot cause rust.

My normal routine with a new gun that I expect to use for nothing but Black Powder is to completely strip it down, and use a solvent like lacquer thinner to strip all the parts down to bare metal. Then I cover everything with a light coating of Ballistol, to protect the steel, and reassemble the gun. Then after I shoot it, I clean out the chambers and bores with Murphy's Mix. I am also careful to work some down inside the action with Q tips, so it will soften up any fouling that worked its way inside the action. The M Mix stays down in the gun, coating any fouling with oil. I then lube the chambers and bores as well as the outside of the gun lightly with Ballistol, and work some down inside the action with Q tips for good measure. I have been doing this for a bunch of years, and I strip the guns down once a year or so to clean out all the black, oily gunk down inside. There is always plenty of black, oily gunk. There is never any rust.

The other benefit of this method is you don't need any heat. The M Mix works fine at room temperature, or you can do it outdoors at the match if you want. You don't have to heat anything and you don't have to worry about driving all the water out of the gun. The M Mix takes care of all that.

[Mako]

For the most part Driftwood is correct but the primary mechanism of oils preventing the oxidation of steel is the water displacing nature of what we call oils. Water does not "wet" itself to steel the way that oil does.  Once oils reach the steel surface they will literally get between the water and the steel creating a barrier.  That's why they call them "WATER DISPLACING" oils.

Destroying any hygroscopic nature of the BP residues is secondary to the fundamental  reason that oils protect steel.  In the absence of a low pH caused by acids or as a result of the ion exchanges from those acids the oil provides a good barrier.  What many people don't realize is that there are bacteria that will live and flourish in hydrocarbons.  That is one of the reasons you need to change your engine oil.  The natural waste of the bacteria is acidic and over time lowers the pH of the oil breaking the bonds with the surface and even allowing some oxidation.

Remember "rust" is just a electrochemical process that is simply the transfer of electrons from iron to oxygen.  Unadulterated oil inhibits it, but how many of us have found weapons or precision tooling (especially naked steel) that was put away with oil, but upon inspection years later has superficial rust specks?  We always attribute that to the oil "evaporating," but that is not always the case.  The volatiles have evaporated but they is usually a residual constituent of wax content like paraffins some resins  and asphaltenes.  Some oils contain sulfides which once unmasked by the volatiles evaporating are a major cause of corrosion.

The best protection is probably afforded by using an emulsified oil in water such as Ballistol.  Contrary to the name of Murphy Oil Soap it, the cleaning agents are Sodium Tallate and Lauramidopropylamine oxide , not oil.  The only oil in the mixture is a very minute amount of citronella oil that is only added for the scent.  It is adds a bit more protection than plain water, but not as much as a suspended mineral oil like Ballistol.  Hot moose milk works pretty well and needs to be followed with either straight mineral oil (Ballistol) or another water displacing oil.  Ballistol is not the best oil for long term storage but for week to week, or month to month use it works very well.

Regards,
Mako

[Cookie]

Big "Thanks pardners!" to Driftwood and Mako.

I always appreciate these sorts of chemistry lessons. Very informative.

I recently stopped using a "citrus-based" BP cleaner, and now use Moosemilk and pure Ballistol exclusively. I'm incredibly satisfied with the results. No rust spots since I started that, and the guns run much smoother as well.

(I'm in the Utah Territory, so it's a fairly dry climate. Also, I use the guns in question pretty much weekly, if not more often. So, no long-term storage issues.)

[Driftwood Johnson]

I'm gonna accept the 'for the most part Driftwood is correct' bit, the rest of it was way over my head.

[Forty Rod]

Nver use HOT water but rather tepid as you will get flash rusting with hot water. 

I have never had a problem with hot tap water.

[AlaskaJack]

I recently tried Venturino's mix of Windex w/vinegar and water......worked slicker than *&^^ through a goose!  Just dissolved the fouling instantly....passed patches through until clean, then sent two oily patches through and wiped down the outside.....done.

[Greysmoke]

Window cleaner, Windex with vinegar is the best. Here's a post on a different forum I did years ago with a different alias:

http://www.gunfighter.com/cgi-bin/bbs/cowboy-a/cowboy-a.cgi?read=15934

EASY!!!

[Claypipe]

Me, when I clean my Colt type revolvers, I break them down and soak the cylinder and barrel assembly in a bath of hot water and Murphy's oil soap. Once I have pulled the nipples and tear down the barrel assembly, to remove the fouling, I rinse the parts with scalding hot water, the oil soap prevents "flash rusting". I dry and wipe down each part with a soft rag and T/C Bore Butter. Once that is done, I put it all back together. I only tear down the action if it is really heavily fouled. Recently, I have been using teflon tape on my nipple threads, so far, so good.

CP