Links to NCOWS Approved & Unapproved Lists

[OklaTom]

So I'm guessing my replica of an 1864 CH Rigdon revolver would be allowed?  

I notice that Lightning rifles are on the approved list; but the AWAs are not specifically mentioned - yea or nay?

Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee

Fingers, I think the problem here is really that the list did not incorporate all the "Lightning" rifles that were manufactured as replicas.  The Perdersoli is not listed, either.  Neither is the Uberti.  But I doubt seriously that anyone would say nay to one.  As long as they are faithful to the original design (not much you can do to change that actually) an are in approved calibers, go for it.

As for the Leech & Rigdon, I have used mine before.  It existed.  The only real problem with the Uberti is that they produce it with the Colt style cylinder scene, rather than smooth.  Even so, I don't really think there is a problem with it.  Two years ago, there was a motion that went to Congress to form a list of BP revolvers approved and disapproved.  Basically, the list would be so long that it got tabled.  The main idea here on the BP revolver is to stay away from the patently non-existent (historically) ones out there like the 44 Caliber 51 Navy and the brass frame Colt and Remington replicas.  Yes, there were some like the Spiller & Burr and the Griswold & Gunnison that were brass frame originally.  Those would surely be allowed.  But Colt did not make brass frame revolvers.

An interesting idea - one could form a pretty darn correct L&R from a Pietta 1851 Navy and a Pietta G&G.  Barrel and cylinder from the G&G on the frame of the the 51, it would look right.

I use a Pietta G&G some, but the first thing I did when I got it was strip the bluing off the steel parts to make it look more like a real one.  As I understand it, they were made of unfinished twisted iron on a brass frame because the Confederates had a serious steel shortage.

[Fingers McGee]

Thanks for the reply Tom.  My Rigdons are faithful recreations of the 1864 Model CH Rigdon Augusta revolvers complete with smooth cylinders that have 12 bolt stop cuts instead of the normal 6.  They have been completely defarbed and remarked to replicate the originals.  Uberti did make L&Rs with smooth unengraved cylinders, you just gotta luck on them sometimes.  Mine were originally made in 1977 and 2007

My remakes




an original

[OklaTom]

VERY nice, Fingers!

[1961MJS]

Hi

Based on what I see in this thread, but not in the NCOWS disapproved list, I should be shooting .45 Long Colt in my SAA.  SASS really pushes .38 Special in many of their threads and pages.  Actually to be REALLY authentic, I should be shooting .44/40 in both SAA and '73 Winchester.  .38 Special wasn't introduced until 1898.  Do I have to shoot .45 Long Colt or is it just more Period Correct?

Later

Mike
Norman OK
Brand new member of OKC Gun Club as of December 1, 2012

[OklaTom]

Hi

Based on what I see in this thread, but not in the NCOWS disapproved list, I should be shooting .45 Long Colt in my SAA.  SASS really pushes .38 Special in many of their threads and pages.  Actually to be REALLY authentic, I should be shooting .44/40 in both SAA and '73 Winchester.  .38 Special wasn't introduced until 1898.  Do I have to shoot .45 Long Colt or is it just more Period Correct?

Later

Mike
Norman OK
Brand new member of OKC Gun Club as of December 1, 2012

Mike, actually you can shoot any of the approved calibers in any of your guns.  There are those that like to try to match caliber to year and firearms, but you can shoot anything listed in the approved list.  According to the Tally Book (http://www.ncows.org/2012tally-book.pdf)

Approved calibers and loads include any that were introduced prior to or during the period of 1865-1899 and that were originally introduced as a black powder load. Common examples include but are not limited to: .22 rimfire, .32-20 WCF, .32 S&W Short, .32 S&W Long, .38-40 WCF, .44-40 WCF, .44 S&W American, .44 S&W Russian, .45 Long Colt, .45 S&W, .45-70 Government. Any cartridge designation that was not originally introduced as a black powder load will not be allowed except for appropriate firearms in the smokeless cartridge division only, or for specifically-designated shooting events. .38 Special/.357 Magnum and .44 Special/.44 Magnum cartridges will be allowed if loaded with black powder or with smokeless powder to black powder velocities.

Bottom line, shoot what you have or want as long as it is not a modern caliber.  If you want to shoot 45 Colt, go for it.  If you want to shoot 38 Spl, well it is more economical.  Me, I just like a big boom, so don't often shoot 38 caliber guns.  But there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

[Russ McCrae]

Colt SAA's were never produced by Colt with brass grip frames.   You see them in movies a lot, but they did not exist.  See RL Wilson's big Colt book for reference.

Colt dropped the production of brass grip backstraps before the start of the Civil War.  By the time the SAA came to be, all factory frames were iron.

Probably gonna shoot myself in the foot but would that include the 1872 open top Navy grip? Mine has a brass backstrap

[OklaTom]

I don't think so at all.  There is plenty of evidence that the navy grip, in brass, existed on the Open Tops.  Here are some photos of serial number 54 and 351 that I found.  Both have brass frames.  They just were not using them on the SAA from 1873 on.

[Russ McCrae]

Ok makes me feel better, I'm in the process of learning how to reverse a short stroke kit on a 1873

[Mad_Dog]

I fear the links are broken?

[OklaTom]

I fear the links are broken?

The web page was revised recently.  Try these links.

Approved List:  http://www.ncows.org/govern/approved.html

Unapproved List:  http://www.ncows.org/govern/unapproved.html

[edward austin cable]

Hello I have checked both the NCOWS Approved and Unapproved Lists, but I just wanted to double check before making a purchase. So here is the question; is the Cimarron Man With No Name conversion revolver approved for use in NCOWS?
Thanks
Cable

[Major 2]

Ed , here is the straight poop...
By name ? no it is not on the approved list ,
However, the following line is a direct cut & paste from that Approved list.

Conversion Models distributed by Cimarron, Navy Arms, & others.

Now the fact that the MWNN is replica if a Movie Prop, may have some with opinions as to it's legality ...the fact remains it is a Conversion Model by Uberti imported/distributed by Cimarron and others ... and is there for is Grandfathered in.

If you have one use it ,
if not and the MWNN is not something you just must have (snake grip and all.)

I suggest a 51 Navy Richards conversion.


Roger Ragland National Judge

[edward austin cable]

Major, thank you for the quick response and clear answer to my question. Much appreciated.
Cable

[Major 2]

Your quite welcome 

[Stirrup Trouble]

The following are the pistols that I own and use for SASS. Are they legal for NCOWS (45 colt)?

http://www.cabelas.com/product/F-LLI-Pietta-1873-SA-Revolvers/1293546.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Dpietta%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts&Ntt=pietta&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products

F LLI Pietta 1873 SA Revolvers (4-3/4" barrel, matte finish)


Thanks

[Major 2]

The wording in the description on the website you provided states....
"A faithful re-creation of the venerable 1873 Colt Single-Action Army revolver..."
when in fact it is not , And here lies the rub .... the guns finish is it the culprit...

The matte finish weather Millennium matte nickel or Millennium matte blue is NOT approved.
Though polished Nickel or blue is ....

There are workarounds, there is no one in my estimation in NCOWS that would slam a door to someone wishing to shoot NCOWS.
To that end, NCOWS offers a one (1) Year moratorium , for one to get his kit approved... Approved guns or clothing.
Attend a posse event and work toward that goal.

There several tutorials on bringing the "matte finish" to a state where it would be acceptable.

[Stirrup Trouble]

The wording in the description on the website you provided states....
"A faithful re-creation of the venerable 1873 Colt Single-Action Army revolver..."
when in fact it is not , And here lies the rub .... the guns finish is it the culprit...

The matte finish weather Millennium matte nickel or Millennium matte blue is NOT approved.
Though polished Nickel or blue is ....

There are workarounds, there is no one in my estimation in NCOWS that would slam a door to someone wishing to shoot NCOWS.
To that end, NCOWS offers a one (1) Year moratorium , for one to get his kit approved... Approved guns or clothing.
Attend a posse event and work toward that goal.

There several tutorials on bringing the "matte finish" to a state where it would be acceptable.

I was afraid of that. I liked that finish too. Oh well. Maybe I can try a few matches this year anyway. Thanks for the info

[River City John]

Stirrup,
in addition, the 1873 was not produced with a brass grip frame and trigger guard. (Scroll up just a bit to the top of this page and you'll see that question has come up before.)

That being said, The Blue River Regulators would welcome you with open arms! If I remember, the idea of a one year grace period to get your arms and gear correct is not officially written anywhere in NCOWS national policy, just a tradition. Although The Blue River Regulators have incorporated it into stated policy on our club by-laws.

Once you start shooting with us, you're going to see so many ideas and combinations of gear and firearms that it'll make you giddy. Oft times, club members are the best source for finding good deals on "field tested" firearms and gear. It's a given, once you get bitten everyone seems to always be turning the inventory.

You mentioned being close to us as far as a drive. I'm about an hour away, and many of our members drive the distance regularly. Some up to a 2 1/2 hour drive.

Hope to see you.  

RCJ  

[Major 2]

Stirrup

I urge you to visit the Blue River Regulators, attend one or more of their shoots.
You will have a great time

I offer the link to the Tally Book, John Ingram's tutorial within will help you greatly. 

http://www.ncows.org/resources/pdfs/2013tally_book.pdf

[Stirrup Trouble]

Stirrup,
in addition, the 1873 was not produced with a brass grip frame and trigger guard. (Scroll up just a bit to the top of this page and you'll see that question has come up before.)

That being said, The Blue River Regulators would welcome you with open arms! If I remember, the idea of a one year grace period to get your arms and gear correct is not officially written anywhere in NCOWS national policy, just a tradition. Although The Blue River Regulators have incorporated it into stated policy on our club by-laws.

Once you start shooting with us, you're going to see so many ideas and combinations of gear and firearms that it'll make you giddy. Oft times, club members are the best source for finding good deals on "field tested" firearms and gear. It's a given, once you get bitten everyone seems to always be turning the inventory.

You mentioned being close to us as far as a drive. I'm about an hour away, and many of our members drive the distance regularly. Some up to a 2 1/2 hour drive.

Hope to see you.  

RCJ  

Thanks for your kindness in the one year moratorium. I look forward to shooting with you guys if I can get over, and even though my pistol isn't approved to start with, it will give me a chance to see what approved guns I might like that are in my price range so I can be legal as soon as I can swing it, instead of being forced to just rush out and buy something blind so I can shoot with you guys. From what I am reading, my rifle is okay, so I just need to fix my pistol situation once I get started with you guys.

Have a wonderful Christmas!