One of one thousand ?

blackpowder · April 04, 2011, 04:58:21 PM

Hello All,

I came across a winchester rifle today which bears the inscription "one of one thousand" in gold letters in cursive script on top of the barrel just behind the rear sight. What exactly does this mean and what is the value of such a gun compared to an ordinary winchester rifle? Thanks

Icebox Bob · April 04, 2011, 06:31:15 PM

http://www.bornrich.com/entry/most-desirable-one-of-one-thousand-winchester-1876-up-for-grabs/

blackpowder · April 05, 2011, 09:13:47 AM

More information: Meanwhile I found out by entering the rifle serial number in the dating calculator on the winchester website that the gun left the factory in 1978. This and the fact that it comes in a modern mahagony case would indicate that the rifle is some commemorative issue. How could I guesstimate the value of it? As far as condition is concerned, it is mint and possibly unfired.

Buck Stinson · April 05, 2011, 09:29:55 AM

What exactly is the serial number? Is this gun pictured in an auction catalog or other reference book? Are there photos available?

Hobie · April 05, 2011, 10:14:48 AM

"Mint" would imply "unfired" outside the factory (generally, some producers never test fired commemoratives before the requirement for cartridge case samples). From Winchester Commemorative Collectors

QuoteTwo very special commemoratives were made for sale in the European market. These were the "One of One Thousand" issues. Winchester saved all Model 94 receivers ending in three zeros for over ten years for this project. The first group of 250 were shipped to Italy in 1978 where they were fully engraved and inlaid in gold by B. C. Giovanelli. The guns were then fitted with exhibition grade french walnut and checkered at approximately 40 lines per inch. After final assembly, the guns were sold throughout Europe through specially chosen distributors. A second group of 250 were produced in similar fashion, and level of embellishment, in 1980. Very, very few of these guns have made it across the Atlantic to the U. S. and if available would be in excess of $10000 each.

Cimarron · April 05, 2011, 08:56:38 PM

Almost seems too good to be true, but then again stranger things have happened.

blackpowder · April 06, 2011, 12:45:30 PM

Quote from: Hobie on April 05, 2011, 10:14:48 AM
"Mint" would imply "unfired" outside the factory (generally, some producers never test fired commemoratives before the requirement for cartridge case samples). From Winchester Commemorative Collectors

I can't get you a picture because it's not mine - not yet (I should make an offer). It is a mod.94, 30-30cal. and the serial number is 4651000. I cant tell if it has ever been fired but if it has then but only a few times. What should I offer for this gun? $:-\$

blackpowder · April 06, 2011, 12:51:18 PM

oh, one more thing. I went to the winchester website and entered the ser. number in their dating calculator. It was indeed made in 1978.

Grizzly Adams · April 06, 2011, 11:07:32 PM

Quote from: blackpowder on April 06, 2011, 12:45:30 PM
What should I offer for this gun? $:-\$

$1200.......Hey, you might get lucky!

rustyrelx · April 07, 2011, 09:41:50 AM

I never could understand the incentive to buy a Winchester commerative. A glorified 94 all dressed up and you can't even use it. I guess it goes back to different strokes for different folks....

blackpowder · April 07, 2011, 12:22:27 PM

Quote from: Grizzly Adams on April 06, 2011, 11:07:32 PM
$1200.......Hey, you might get lucky!

does anyone have an idea how much it is really worth? I dont want to make a ridicules offer and have it slip away

Buck Stinson · April 07, 2011, 03:10:11 PM

I can't tell you what it's worth, but I can tell you all Winchester commemoratives are dogs on the resale market and have been for a long time. If you are buying it as an investment, DON'T. If you have the money burning a hole in your pocket and you like it because it's pretty, then you should probably have it.

Grizzly Adams · April 07, 2011, 05:26:07 PM

Quote from: blackpowder on April 07, 2011, 12:22:27 PM
does anyone have an idea how much it is really worth? I don't want to make a ridicules offer and have it slip away

+1 on what Buck said.

The link Hobie posted certainly give a good idea as to what commemoratives are "valued at." Now, if the rifle your looking at is one of the One of One Thousand made for Europe, then.....

"Two very special commemoratives were made for sale in the European market. These were the "One of One Thousand" issues. Winchester saved all Model 94 receivers ending in three zeros for over ten years for this project. The first group of 250 were shipped to Italy in 1978 where they were fully engraved and inlaid in gold by B. C. Giovanelli. The guns were then fitted with exhibition grade french walnut and checkered at approximately 40 lines per inch. After final assembly, the guns were sold throughout Europe through specially chosen distributors. A second group of 250 were produced in similar fashion, and level of embellishment, in 1980." "Very, very few of these guns have made it across the Atlantic to the U. S. and if available would be in excess of $10000 each."
IF the rifle is worth 10,000 as they claim, then I guess it depends on how flush you are, and how much you are willing to gamble on it!

Personally, IMHO, there is no Winchester Commemorative on the planet worth more than $1200. In my book, "serious money" is for investment quality antique Winchesters and Colts. Those are blue chip stock. I know a lot of folks who have sunk good money into Commemoratives, hoping to "turn them" on down the line. Most have lost money.

FWIW, Giovanelli, is the same gent that engraved the Marlin 1894 Century Limited rifles back in 94. No gold, but right pretty pieces!

Good luck, and post some pics if you decide to pull the trigger.

Shotgun Franklin · April 07, 2011, 05:49:13 PM

Several times I've had folks come to me with commemorative guns that they had fired. They asked me to sell the gun for them. I've never gotten as much as you'd get for a regular model of the same gun fired or not.
Guns I have done well on are when the makers have extra parts for the commemorative that they put on a regular gun. These get snapped up by collectors. I had a WW '94 with an octagon barrel during a year when they weren't offering such a gun. I had a S&W M-25 in .45 Colt, heavy long barrel from a commemorative before the 25 was offered in .45 Colt. That gun sold well too.

Hobie · April 07, 2011, 06:27:21 PM

I want to make it clear that I have no dog in this hunt and the only way I'd buy a commemorative, Winchester or otherwise, is if it is in a configuration I'm dying to shoot. I posted the info the fans of the product believe. You just need to find another fan. If you can get the gun for $300 and it has the box (in good condition) you should be good to go.

Josie Wales · April 08, 2011, 01:40:46 AM

Howdy fellas. I thought I would throw my two cents in on this subject. I've only been collecting Winchesters for a short time and I'm positive I don't have near the knowledge as some of the gentlemen that have posted on this topic. That being said however, if I was going to shell out $10,000 for a gun it darn sure better be one of the antique originals. In my opinion commemoratives are just that.....they commemorate an important event or person's life in American history. The way I see it though the originals were there, making the history and to me that's the appeal and that's why the antique originals are worth the big money and the commemoratives aren't.

Josie

blackpowder · April 08, 2011, 11:25:16 AM

ok, fellas. Here is the scoop. Hobie was entirely correct (you really know your Winchesters). I went again today to have another look and ask the owner what "ballpark" figure offers he was looking for. So he dealt me plain cards: The rifle is indeed one of the one's made for Europe that Hobie mentioned. He showed me the purchase receipt from Sotheby's auction house in London where he bought it in 2003 for the equivalent of 7.800 US $$$. He is looking for at least that much or more.
Well, that's more than I ever want to spend on a commemorative.

Shotgun Franklin · April 08, 2011, 05:20:07 PM

While you might have missed a deal at $300, if you want a better Cowboy '94 get one in .38-55.
Don't feel bad though, years ago before 'Cowboy' came back in, I bought Colt SAA serial # 289 for $200 and sold it for $250.

Hobie · April 08, 2011, 05:37:17 PM

I believe that you are well off to have walked from that deal.

Buck Stinson · April 08, 2011, 06:48:32 PM

I agree with Hobie. Thank the good Lord above for this forum and do the dance of joy for NOT flushing your hard earned money riight down the toitie. Glitter and gold is sometimes used to sell lemons to the uneducated and we've all been members of that club at least once. Okay, maybe twice.