Richards conversion .38 Special

rebsr52339 · March 29, 2011, 05:01:29 PM

Hey guys, I just picked up this Armi San Marco Rardards conversion. The serial number is 62. It is a .38 special and in the original box and appears to be unfired. The quality is outstanding and the action feels like it was done over by an expert. Anybody got an idea about when this was made? Will load up some FFF and some Pyrodex this week and make some smoke. Gosh what a beautiful gun.

Major 2 · March 29, 2011, 05:21:07 PM

You will see people write to pan ASM....and truth be known they were hit or miss
The early ones were quite good , but they had some Anchornisums which you will also hear about.
Gun smith Dave Anderson did the early ones and ASM provided parts....ASM made some for the Wholesalers..
Traditions, Sportmans Warehouse .... most of these had issues and were not so good.
Dave's AWA offered them as did Navy Arms & Cimarron, some of the above wound up with AWA, NA & Cimarron.
Many were returned for warranty of refund... the three dropped them.

I have one Dave Anderson did for USPFA as a prototype for the 92 or 93 Shot Show...it's one on my sweetest shooters
and it's USPFA marked gun.

rebsr52339 · March 29, 2011, 05:51:10 PM

Thanks Major 2. I will let you know how it works out. You can just get a sheet of "thin" paper between the front of the cylinder and the bbl. Looks tight but we will see. Thanks again.

rebsr52339 · March 30, 2011, 03:58:12 AM

One other thing while I was examining the gun last night was the grip. It is of course the "Army" size. The back strap is blue steel and the trigger guard is a non Ferris (not magnetic) material, probably brass. The material is plated. At first I thought it was chrome or nickel. I noticed a lot of oxidation on the areas where you did not handle it. My curiosity was now up and I tested it and it was silver, somewhere between Sterling and coin, most probably Sterling. I have been working with gold and silver for over 40 years. I wonder if a previous owner had this done or maybe Mr. Anderson did it for a customer. BTW the plating is very heavy. While we may all like to own odities, I do not think this is one. Just one that is darn interesting. More mystery. Well it is 4:50am EST and a good hour to start loading. Later

Major 2 · March 30, 2011, 04:29:32 AM

Plated silver was standard on the brass TG

Bishop Creek · March 30, 2011, 10:50:05 AM

My AFF 1851 Navy conversion made by Anderson has a silver plated backstrap and trigger guard.

rebsr52339 · March 30, 2011, 01:00:48 PM

I gotta tell you guys that silver sure looks nice. I will be the envy of the ball.

Major 2 · March 30, 2011, 02:27:41 PM

If you can, grab a copy of Adlers "Metallic Cartridge Conversions".

There are some photo's of eye opening

Anderson

guns ..also Kenny Howell , John Gren ,
Millington eye candy

Bishop Creek · March 30, 2011, 03:34:29 PM

Quote from: Major 2 on March 30, 2011, 02:27:41 PM
If you can, grab a copy of Adlers "Metallic Cartridge Conversions".

There are some photo's of eye opening Anderson guns ..also Kenny Howell , John Gren ,
Millington eye candy

One of my favorite gun books, beautiful photos!

rebsr52339 · March 30, 2011, 04:36:06 PM

Book is on the way. You know even the front sight is silver.

Every time I look at this gun I see something I like even more.

Mako · March 30, 2011, 04:36:11 PM

Quote from: rebsr52339 on March 30, 2011, 03:58:12 AM
One other thing while I was examining the gun last night was the grip. It is of course the "Army" size. The back strap is blue steel and the trigger guard is a non Ferris (not magnetic) material, probably brass. The material is plated. At first I thought it was chrome or nickel. I noticed a lot of oxidation on the areas where you did not handle it. My curiosity was now up and I tested it and it was silver, somewhere between Sterling and coin, most probably Sterling. I have been working with gold and silver for over 40 years. I wonder if a previous owner had this done or maybe Mr. Anderson did it for a customer. BTW the plating is very heavy. While we may all like to own odities, I do not think this is one. Just one that is darn interesting. More mystery. Well it is 4:50am EST and a good hour to start loading. Later

Rebsr52339,

Looks like this doesn't it?

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Odds%20and%20Ends/ASM.jpg

That is mine which is just like yours.

This is Strawhat's pistol, but in .44 Colt.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/Conversions006.jpg

Notice it looks the same? We have compared cylinder diameters and they are within .009" of each other, basically the same. It is historically incorrect because it has the straight cylinder instead of the stepped cylinder of an Army model. According to the Fox Creek Kid and others they also made them with stepped cylinders. It appears Armi San Marco was just all over the map with frame/cylinder/recoil shield/grip configurations.

There is more to it than it just has Army grips. First of all there was no such thing as a '61 converted to the Richards Model 1 on record. The pistols were built as Army Model conversions by ASM. Just a guess, but I think they made the .38s and had left over cylinders and frames and bored them for .44 Colt. Traditions was the importer so I guess you have the red traditions box? Traditions had a bit more savvy (sort of...) about the models and renamed the .38s , that's what fooled me. What is the model number and the description on the box? I bought mine a long time ago because it was advertised as a '61 conversion and I was into '61s in a big way.

There are other inaccuracies such as the recoil shield doesn't have a lip that extends over the gap to the cylinder and the loading gate is also wrong.

I hope your action holds up, mine chewed itself to bits after a couple of thousand rounds. Strawhat had the same problem but he's rebuilt his. If yours was tuned by someone it might hold up better, mine began nice but the hand, bolt; hammer and ratchet have all worn. I bought parts that were supposed to fit about five years ago but they didn't so it has been shelved for well over ten years now. Someone recently told me of someone who had a bunch of ASM parts, if you need them some day PM me and I'll dig up the source.

It is an interesting pistol and has the sight on the shield an floating breech mounted firing pin, but it is a bit of a Frankenstein pistol. No one will know except for a few of us. I hope it serves you well and that it is one of the good ASMs I hear about every so often.

Be sure to post the description and model number from the box for us.

Regards,
Mako

Fox Creek Kid · March 30, 2011, 05:35:08 PM

Quote from: Mako on March 30, 2011, 04:36:11 PM...First of all there was no such thing as a '61 converted to the Richards Model 1 on record...

Colt made the grand sum of ONE tool room .38 Richards on a '61 Navy. There's a photo of it in the McDowell book. They also made ONE '72 Open Top in .38 Colt for the Navy trials. It was sold at auction a few years ago. However, for all intents & purposes Mako is right: no .38 cal. Richards were made AND sold to the public.

rebsr52339 · March 31, 2011, 08:55:56 AM

When I said it was the original box in the first post I lied

Just did not look at it close enough. The box is blue and the end label is not readable, except I can just make out a "3/4" on it. It is an Armi San Marco marked box. There is no other marking on it. The area where the info would be is quite worn away. It looks like it was just a box someone had and used it because the gun fit. Sorry about the "mis-information"

BTW those two guns are beauties.

StrawHat · April 01, 2011, 06:37:13 AM

Yep, mine is the second revolver in Mako's post. After a bit of firing, it needed some reworking and eventually I replaced nearly all the internals and the hammer. I used parts from other makes and was fortunate in theat I was able to alter them to fit correctly. How is the trigger pull on yours? When I got mine, you could measure it in ounces, way to light for what I like. It is now around four pounds and much better for me than the "look at it and it fires" way it came.

Mako, I also have the box, somewhere. When I find it I will post the info for you.

rebsr52339 · April 02, 2011, 06:49:26 PM

Guys, I got about 150 rounds thru it now, more tomorrow, Sunday with BP. First shooting round is with 15gr of Pyrodax P, a 160 gr RNFP bullet. The trigger is 2# 7oz average, OK for me as I am used to a light trigger with my center fire and rim fire target competition guns. The target is representative of many groops I shot.I realy like the gun and will try and get some spare parts and do some work when necessaty. Thanks for all your info.

Drayton Calhoun · April 04, 2011, 08:01:24 PM

Got an ASM Walker with the wedge going in on the wrong side and a 3rd Mod. Dragoon cut for a shoulder stock, but no screws, but still both are sweet shooters.

StrawHat · April 07, 2011, 05:52:02 AM

Found the box. The end panel is marked as follows:

Traditions
SA19541
1860 Colt Army Conversion
44 Colt Revolver
8" Round Blued Barrel
Walnut grips, Steel Frame
5623 (typed on a sticker) and 5973 (handwritten on the label.)

Neither of the numbers on the end panel are the serial number of the revolver but t is close to the typed number.

Mako · April 08, 2011, 12:45:20 PM

Quote from: Drayton Calhoun on April 04, 2011, 08:01:24 PM
Got an ASM Walker with the wedge going in on the wrong side and a 3rd Mod. Dragoon cut for a shoulder stock, but no screws, but still both are sweet shooters.

Hey Dalton,
You do realize the Walker wedge goes in the opposite of the other Colt's don't you? Or did you mean it is wrong because it goes from port to starboard, unlike the original?

Regards,
Mako