Leather die question fer ya ???

[Chuck 100 yd]

Friends, Being a procrastinator, I did not get any Walnut husks last fall when they were available
(plenty and close by).
I just sent for a pound of dried/ground/powdered walnut husks from these folks.
http://www.kalyx.com/store/proddetail.cfm/ItemID/661023/CategoryID/1000/SubCatID/10/file.htm
I placed an order on line three days ago and it was on my porch today. They must ship by rocket!! 

My question is.... I have no instructions on how to make die out of it.
Would you put it in water and just simmer until whenever? Strain through a coffee filter to get the crud out?

A pound is about the same volume as a pound of coffee grounds. Do you think it will make 2 gallons of die or should I try it in one gallon?
Their web site tells how to make the die from fresh hulls but not from the powdered stuff.

I guess I could and will  e-mail them. I WAS hoping it would come with a sheet of instructions or suggestions.

One pound cost $21.73 with shipping. I don`t want to waste it!  What say you guys???

[Mogorilla]

I made a decent dye with half a pound and 2 quarts of water, so i would go with a gallon of water.   I put the powdered hulls in a glass pot, added the water and brought it to a low boil.  Simmered for 4 hours, let it sit over night and repeated the process.   Then after cooling, strained it out and placed the dye in a large plastic bottle.  I added about 1 cup of isopropyl alcohol to inhibit any growth.   

[Chuck 100 yd]

Mogorilla, Thanks for the reply.

How did you apply it , using a dobber (sp?) or sponge or did you soak the piece in it?
Was the color good?

This year I am going to get the real thing for free. There are lots of walnut trees around here and most people hate the mess they leave in the fall but my boss loves having them in the area.
here is a picture of one black walnut he cut last year.

[Cliff Fendley]

That is a serious log.

I dip mine in the walnut dye. I keep a couple gallon in a big canning pot. Warm it on the stove top in the shop (warm not hot) and dip the entire piece in it. I can get a holster and belt in together without a problem. I let soak for 1 or 2 hours and then hang out to dry. I hang them from the overhead door on my shop in the sunshine if I want it darker. During cold weather I have hung them in the in front of the sliding door of the house so the sunshine can be on it while drying.

In hot weather you need to babysit it if you have it in the sun, you don't want to let it get hot or damage the leather, generally the piece will stay cool even in the sun while it's fairly wet, once it starts getting dry keep a close eye on it or go ahead and bring it in to finish drying.

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Chuck, I like to mix green hulls with the bag mix, and cook it all together in a 22 qt. pot with the lid on, once it comes to a boil, turn it down to simmer, I make about twelve qt. at a time, and do my cooking over three days allowing time to cool between cooking usually 3 to 4 hours a day, this method has given me my best results, if I know I'm going to dye/stain one or more of my pieces, I won't add any alcohol at this time, but will after, even if your dye gets a culture growing on the top, it can be removed and it doesn't hurt the dye at all, if there is mold be careful when removing, and wear breathing protection, when I make a new batch I always add what is left from the old batch, this helps to make the dye stronger, when the dye is strong, and the tannins are strong too, you can get great color by just dipping your piece, but you can also dab it on with large sheep skin pads, I find these pads work great, I've gone as long as seven days with my leather submerged in my dye, to get a deeper penetration of color, there is no set in concrete way of doing this, and the fun part of it is just experimenting with it to get what your after in the way of color.

         tEN wOLVES 

[Mogorilla]

I did the dauber with mine, got a nice medium brown but danged if I took a picture of it.  I picked up some hulls here but it was late, so not green.  I dried mine have about 2 lbs.   Haven't made any from them yet.

Question to you all.  Have any of you used annatto?  It is what makes cheese yellow.   It is also used in mexican cuisine, called achiotte (not sure on that spelling).   I thougtht about mixing them to get a nice tan, but don't want to spend the money if someone has tried and it didn't work.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Wow! Thanks guys. Learning as ya go sometimes takes a while.
It sure is good to have such a fine support team!!! 

[mrappe]

The crushed walnut hulls. Are they green ? Could you use the crushed walnut hulls that come as brass tumbling media?

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

mrappe

Never tried that, but I would think the dye would be a little weaker, but then I guess I did with my first try, it came out OK, but was a little weaker than what I make now at a certain time of the year the black walnuts are abundant, my neighbors tree drops them on my side, and I gather them, but I've found that adding a bag of crushed store bought walnut hulls along with my green walnuts gives me the best results the tannins in the green hulls are much stronger.


  tEN wOLVES  

[ChuckBurrows]

While the green hulls are best due to the higher tannin content the dry hulls work just fine - just use about 1/4-1/2 more when making up the dye and then concentrate it by boiling it donw a bit. The dried hulls are sold by several vendors for just such a use by basket makers and others.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Tumbling media is made of walnut shells ground up. The outer husk is what to use to make die. I don't think the shells would even make any color at all or very little.
By the way,I used the ground powdered walnut husks to make 2 gallons of die and cooked it for about 8 hours all together.
Strained it through a micro fiber towel (just like the cowboys did???  ) and gave it a try.
I wanted a die that I could soak the piece in for some length of time like I do roon.
The first test piece came out nice but more testing is in order.

[mrappe]

Unfortunately we don't have any walnut trees around here, I will have to see if I can find some online.

[Cliff Fendley]

Now lets make ourselves clear.

The terminology being used on the walnuts is misleading to some wanting to make the dye. Generally I've always heard the green outer layer of the nut to be the husk and the shell or hull is the harder shell. Although technically the husk is also the hull

You dont use the "HULLS" like are used in tumbling media. It's the "HUSK" you use to make dyes. The Green husk works best but it will work once it's dried and turned brown.

I don't know about everywhere else but in these parts the outer coating of a nut that is softer is the "husk" and you "hull" the nuts by removing the "husk". Then and after drying you "shell" them by cracking the "hull".   Now is that clear as mud to everyone

[Dalton Masterson]

Thats what I always thought Cliff!
That way around here anyway.
DM

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy all

       When it comes to Husk or Hull, just to make it easy, I use the whole Walnut, meat and all of the BLACK walnut, I like to gather my walnuts when they are green and falling from the tree, I don't necessarily cook them right then, and if I don't, I will freeze them until I have a need for more  dye, I have found that freezing doesn't take anything away from the strength of the green walnut, so I have been cooking them up on a as needed basis, there is no question in my mind that the green black walnuts have the strongest tannins, and make the best dye, adding them to a bag of crushed walnuts the type you can buy from basket making supply stores or the internet, really makes for a great dye, this is how I make mine, and I'm sold on doing it this way, but there are always more ways to skin a rabbit, this is just the method I use for my dye.

                  tEN wOLVES                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

[ChuckBurrows]

READ MY POST ABOVE AGAIN RE: THE GROUND HULLS

!!!! YES THE HARD GROUND UP SHELLS CAN BE USED TO MAKE THE DYE !!!!

and yes I'm shouting on purpose because the other info being offered above about not using them is WRONG!!
I have used both the green as well as the dried for 40+ years and the dried ground shell/hulls, etc. are sold by many for making the dye - as TW noted this is what is sold by basket making firms and it works.........

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

   Chuck, you're absolutely right, I remember after reading your methods for making the walnut dye, at that time I wasn't aware that you could buy crushed walnuts on the internet, or a basket making store or supply house, so I bought some walnuts at the store, which were English walnuts, and removed the meat and then crushed the shell/hulls, etc., and after cooking and reducing , over a three day period, I got some nice color, for which I still have that same batch, which is now over four years old, I use it when I want a little different shade of color than I get from the stronger batch made from Black walnuts in the green I have now, as you have pointed out, there are several different shades and tones that can be achieved just by how weak or strong you make these natural dyes by cooking and reducing, I've been sold on this type dyeing and use my natural dyes on 90% of everything I make these days, so thanks for sharing your methods with us all Chuck, and for those that haven't read how to make and use these dyes, you can find this information along with Chuck Burrows methods in our" FAQ/HOW-TO - LINKS TO THREADS THAT EXPLAIN THINGS ", under Making Old Time Dyes, any one interested in making natural dyes needs to read this thread.

                         tEN wOLVES  

[ChuckBurrows]

Thanks TW and apologies to all if a I sounded a bit curt - I've been fighting with a migraine for about three days now and I'm not the most even tempered - I've bit off so many nails in that time that I've broke a few teeth I think     

[Skeeter Lewis]

Chuck, you've earned the right to be tetchy one in a while. You give us pards a lot of help and advice. Good luck with the migraine....

[ChuckBurrows]

I dropped a 6 pound forging hammer on my foot a short while after making that earlier post - the head isn't bothering me so much now