New Project

[alaskapacker]

I'm ready to try my next big project, something I've never tackled before. I want to build a period-correct shoulder rig for a .44 mag Super Blackhawk with 7 1/2bbl. I ride horseback in the mountains here all summer, and am looking for a more practicle way to carry a weapon and still have it accessable under jackets and slickers.

Anyone know where I can get a pattern for a rig like this - http://www.oldwestreproductions.com/products/images/47_1_small.jpg or ideas for something similar?

Any ideas or advice?

I hope it's ok to hi-jack that url for the picture above, I know the owner is a member here, and I don't want to offend or step out of bounds. If I did, please accept my apology and I will remove it.

AP

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Al Stohlman has a book,"How to Make Holsters' that on pages 30 and 31 haas the rig for a shoulder holster setup where one sews the holster one wants onto the shoulder rig ... and on page 32 has a template fo the Ruger Single Six ... don't know how close that is to your gun ....

But on pages 2 & 3 it has instructions on how to make a holster for any gun ... and on page 9-11 it has instoctins on how to make any holster ....

Worth the money .... answers ALOT of questions ....

And if you have a Tandy in your city or nearby, availabl there normally ... or orderable from Tandy online (and no, I am not a Tandy syncophant it just happens to be a good source for this ...

Amazon also has it available ...

http://www.amazon.com/How-Make-Holsters-Al-Stohlman/dp/1892214989

[Trailrider]

IMHO, backed by 44 years of experience making holsters for myself and customers who even packed revolvers to Africa and Alaska, on horseback and in vehicles, you are going to find a shoulder holster is NOT the answer for your purpose.  The human body's shoulders and spine are a flexible "T", and as such, a shoulder holster puts asymetrical loading on the shoulder.  You can strap the thing until you run out of ideas, and you will only tie yourself in knots or rub yourself raw, depending on where the straps connect to what (belt, etc.).  The 7-1/2" barrel will not be easy to draw from a shoulder rig, unless you use a spring seam and pull the gun through it.

The body's center of mass and strongest bones are in the pelvic area.  A crossdraw holster worn on a 2-inch wide belt (although I've had customers wear heavier guns on their 1-3/4" jeans belts quite successfully) will be just as accessible by wearing it on the outside of your jacket, slicker, etc.  Properly designed you can get protection from weather with a thumb break half-flap, one-piece half-flap or even a full flap, depending on your preference.  With a cant angle of 22-25 degrees off vertical, you can get at the gun with either hand, and will be quite comfortable on horseback.

Ride easy, Pard!

[alaskapacker]

WaddWatsonEllis, thanks for the links. There certainly is no Tandy anywhere near where I am, but there may be one in Anchorage, (150 miles away) and I can check on line. I will look it up.

Trailrider, you are right, mostly. I've carried crossdraw for years, both on horseback and on foot. I have 3 crossdraw holsters now. Usually, it is the way to go. However, with the rough mountain terrain I constantly ride and the packstrings I'm leading and  twisting in the saddle for, the crossdraw is always banging on or hanging up on the saddle horn. (I ride an excellant slick-fork Wade-tree saddle with bucking rolls and a 4" horn)  If a horse slips, or we have to go bucking through a bog, the horn jams the crazy thing up into my ribcage and breadbasket. No fun. Then there is the near constant rain for a large part of the riding season, and a slicker splits right at the belt to go on either side of the saddle, leaving the gun exposed. If I move it further around to the left out of the way, it's about as out of reach a carrying strongside. I thought I might explore the possibility for another solution. But your input is spot on as well, there is no denying. Just not sure where to go.

Many guides and outdoorsmen up here use a type of holster like found here, http://www.diamonddcustomleather.com/Chest_Holsters.php I have one for a 2" 44 magnum Dan Wesson my wife carries, and it is incredibly comfortable in all type of activities, all day long. I just wanted something a little more western. But you are right, there would certainly be a drag on the one side after a while with a regular shoulder holster. You've got me thinking, sure enough. What about a variation of one of those Doc Holliday holsters they call them. You think that might be a good compromise?
AP


A

[alaskapacker]

Trailrider, sorry. You did address the slicker issue. The thing is, there is no leather flap or holster made that will keep a pistol dry when riding 5 straight days, 8 - 10 hours a day in constant pouring rain, not counting the waist-high grass, alders and limbs we brush through the whole trail. We are on the Kenai Peninsula near the coast, and the riding issues I face are often ......unique. I contract guide guests up into the mountains, so we go regardless of the weather.

I just don't want to seem difficult or argumentative. Your experience and feedback are valuable, and I sur hope you keep 'em coming, and we can figure out the best way to make my outfit more practicle.

[Boothill Bob]

Alaskapacker. How about a pommel holster like in True grit, seams as a good solution.
//Boothill Bob

[Trailrider]

Trailrider, sorry. You did address the slicker issue. The thing is, there is no leather flap or holster made that will keep a pistol dry when riding 5 straight days, 8 - 10 hours a day in constant pouring rain, not counting the waist-high grass, alders and limbs we brush through the whole trail. We are on the Kenai Peninsula near the coast, and the riding issues I face are often ......unique. I contract guide guests up into the mountains, so we go regardless of the weather.

I just don't want to seem difficult or argumentative. Your experience and feedback are valuable, and I sur hope you keep 'em coming, and we can figure out the best way to make my outfit more practicle.

Well, I will admit that leather might get a bit soggy under those conditions, although you could treat it with mink oil or the like.  As far as keeping the holster far enough around to the left that you can't get at it with your right hand, have you thought about packing a full-flap on the RIGHT side, butt forward, cavalry style?  I did that when I hunted on horseback during my younger days. True, the cavalry draw takes some getting used to and a bit of practice, but it can still be accessed in a pince with either hand. Just a thought. NOT trying to argue about it. 

[alaskapacker]

I like the idea of trying a calvery draw on the strong side, never have but I'm game. My .44 is an original Old Model un-converted 3-screw Super Blackhawk in beautiful condition, and I am a baby about taking care of it. The idea of a soggy holster with my girl in it makes me shiver. I think I'm probably just a big sissy.   

And no, my friend, you are not being argumentative at all. I'm delighted at the conversation. This sharing of ideas and knowledgable feedback is exactly why I joind this forum. Please, kepp it coming!! 

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Alaskapacker,

I am about as green as it comes, having made only three holsters ... but to my mind, Al Stoholman's book might help alot of your needs .... for instance, the two page chapters are:

1. How to make your own holster patterns
2. How to cut patterns for various holster angles
3. How to Assemble a Holster .... Laced
4. Holster Assembly ... Machine Sewing
5. Thong Lacing; How to Prepare a Thong
6.Holster Assembly ... Thong Lacing, Awl Holes
7. How To Hand Sew; Preparing the Thread
8. Holster Assembly; Hand Sewing


Well, you get the idea ... it looks like a perfect primer for a guy who cannot just drop into a Tandys and say, 'Gee Coach, what do I do now?'  (Like me)

[Trailrider]

I like the idea of trying a calvery draw on the strong side, never have but I'm game. My .44 is an original Old Model un-converted 3-screw Super Blackhawk in beautiful condition, and I am a baby about taking care of it. The idea of a soggy holster with my girl in it makes me shiver. I think I'm probably just a big sissy.   

And no, my friend, you are not being argumentative at all. I'm delighted at the conversation. This sharing of ideas and knowledgable feedback is exactly why I joind this forum. Please, kepp it coming!! 

Well, the holster got a bit damp when I wound up in a sleet storm one time on a hunt.  Because I was using the thumbbreak half-flap, the grips got partially wet, which wiped right off when I finally got back to camp. Believe me, even wearing a slicker, I was pretty damp myself! But aluminum gripframes on a .44 Magnum Flat Top don't rust. In fact it was so wet the only way I could get kitchen matches lit was to strike them on the checkering of my rifle!  Got the fire going in some deep timber where there was actually some dry kindling, and the guy I was hunting with shot a sage hen out of a tree, a head shot...with his bolt action .270!  Least we had lunch! That was nigh on to 45 years ago, and I was a tad spryer than these days. 

Actually, giving the leather a light coating of Kiwi shoe polish and using the full flap version causes the water to roll right off the leather, and the full flap keeps the gun dry, so no problem. Regardless, when drying wet leather, do NOT set it near heat, a camp stove, etc. Just set it inside your tent or camper and let it dry at around room temp. 

The only thing that I'd strongly recommend with a butt-forward carry and any single action of the Colt's type mechanism, rather than a transfer bar mechanism, is to be sure to keep only "five beans in the wheel" , hammer down on the empty, and to BE SURE the holster design shrouds the hammer spur completely to preclude snaging the hammer spur with a coat or shirt sleeve and cocking or partially cocking the hammer in the holster.  Also, I strongly recommend the trigger to be completely covered.  The design of my #961 is over 40 years old, and I haven't had a complaint yet...and I've followed up.  BTW, appreciate your kind words. Also, some of my comments in the beginning of this paragraph are aimed at others who might not have experience with Colt's type single actions. Not yourself.

[alaskapacker]

Roger that on the empty chamber under the hammer. It is a religion with me. (rotate hammer half way back 'till click, load one chamber, skip one chamber, load 4 chambers, rotate hammer rest of way back bringing skipped chamber under hammer, lower hammer carefully).

I did some research on the cavalry draw this evening, and it looks very practical. It very much answers many of my holster-wearing issues up to this point. I guess I should have looked back to the old time professional horsemen who had to carry all the time for answers to some of my modern day delima. Thank you.

Do I understand right that the full flap on your holster design is removable at times, if so-desired?

[Slowhand Bob]

I think that packing-in is why we see so many hand cannon calibers now offered in snub nosed barl lengths.  My first recommendation for new holster makers is a set of videos, as put out by several top hands at leather craft.  Most will start out with a tutorial on pattern making and sizing before going on from there with techniques.  The two books that have impressed me the most, for a beginning holster maker is the above mentioned one by Stohlman and the other is by a guy named Jim Simmons(?).  The one by Simmons uses some unique ideas on layout and fitting ideas and is pretty easy to follow.  Personally I do not consider his techniques to be practical for commercial work but very suited for one offs and the beginner could easily use the techniques learned to understand the basic ideas.  He also offered pattern packs for one or more western style shoulder rigs.  At any rate, the downside is that, I do not know how to contact Simmons or if anyone is carrying his books, video or patterns any longer?

The Holiday rigs I see offered are usually just a low slung shoulder support for a belt worn cross draw, my interpretation.  Some benefits of both styles and some draw backs as well, they help distribute the load but sure take up a lot of extra body space for the packer to absorb.  Same with the breast carry rig shown above, could be excellent for the day walker but would not work well with many pack straps.  Another thought might be one of the new tactical carry modes, with the gun hanging extremely low from the waist and strapped to the upper thigh.  Not sure if this was a Bianchi innovation or not but I first saw it as an adaptation for his early military holster.   

[Trailrider]

Roger that on the empty cylinder under the hammer. It is a religion with me. (rotate hammer half way back 'till click, load one cylinder, skip one cylinder, load 4 cylinders, rotate hammer rest of way back bringing skipped cylinder under hammer, lower hammer carefully).

I did some research on the cavalry draw this evening, and it looks very practicle. It very much answers many of my holster-wearing issues up to this point. I guess I should have looked back to the old time professional horsemen who had to carry all the time for answers to some of my modern day delima. Thank you.

Do I understand right that the full flap on your holster design is removable at times, if so-desired?

Roger, that! All the flaps are interchangeable by means of screwposts on the back of the holster. As a result, they may be had  (oops, am I breaking the no commercial rules here???) with one, two or three styles of flaps: thumbbreak half-flap, one-piece half-flap and/or full flap.  It is best to order however many you'd want at the time of the initial order so that the holes can be matched up exactly. The holster and flaps are handmade, and although I use patterns, there can be dimensional variations.  I don't recommend leaving the flaps off completely because there is always a possibility of the gun falling out of the holster if, say you decide to hang by your knees from a tree, or your horse decides to unload you.     Of course, the flaps are retention devices, just like a hammer thong, but more secure, convenient and protective of the gun.  IF a person were practiced, co-ordinated, and fast, I'd bet the design of this style holster against Johnny Ringo or any of the other rigs used with a single action revolver.  Of course that would only apply nowadays if you were ambushed by one of those oversized teddy bears you grow up there...or if there was a moose on the loose that decided you were in his or her way!  (I hear a bull moose in the rut will take on a diesel locomotive!  )

[outrider]

slowhand,

Jim Simmons has a shop called Etowah River Leather.  Also, his pattern packs are sold by Hidecrafter out of Fort worth.  Do a search on Hidecrafter....

[Slowhand Bob]

Thanks for the heads up Outrider, I had heard that George Hurst?? had actually gone back to Tandy/TLF and did not know of HCs status.  A few suppliers have been crying over the situation and I hope the new powers that be can make a go of it.

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

  I'm curious, is Hide Crafters still in business, I turned in a list of five items over a year and a half ago, and was told they didn't have anything I ordered in stock, so I asked them to email me when they were in stock, or just give me a call, I still haven't heard from them, and I followed up twice on the phone, I would hate to think they didn't make it, they had items that you couldn't fine other places, and that's why I turned to them.

      tEN wOLVES

[Slowhand Bob]

They had pretty much quit offering any commercial maker discounts before they stopped printing a paper catalog but, like you, I still liked the idea of having a few of the 'hard to find' specialty items around that they offered.  If for no other reason, we should all mourn the loss of the most prolific 'how-to' line of products that I know of.  I do really hope that someone will pick up the rights to the educational videos, patterns and books that Hidecrafters (Hurst) developed over the years, this would be a valuable library to lose.

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

  I agree Bob, it would be great if some one would take Hide Crafters over, you can't last long if you don't have any product to sell, I had one stamp that was on order for over two years, I finally went to another source to get it.