Model 1860 Spencer Carbine Serial Number

[Cantineflas]

Hello, just joined up and have a question about an 1860 Spencer Carbine I just bought. I would like any information about this carbines history that you could provide..serial number 36503.

Thanks
Richard

[Two Flints]

Hi Richard,

Thanks for joining SSS.

First of all,   you really have to read and understand my standard disclaimer that I print out for everyone, who requests Spencer serial # information.  So, here it is:

Some time ago I acquired the four volume set of the Springfield Research Service (SRS) Serial Numbers of U.S. Martial Arms. I purchased the set so I could maybe help SSS members identify which unit their original Spencer Carbine or rifle was issued or assigned to during, and perhaps, after the Civil War.

Unfortunately, not all the Spencer serial numbers are listed in the four volume set I own.  And, to make identification even more difficult, there are huge and multiple  gaps between indicated serial numbers. This paragraph is a DISCLAIMER of sorts. As a courtesy to SSS members, I am happy to reveal to you the information I have regarding the serial number of your Spencer carbine or rifle. But, please remember, I am just regurgitating what I read in my SRS volumes with some "unscientific conjecture" on my part. What I do is the following: I take your Spencer serial number and try to place it in between the two closest serial numbers I find listed in my SRS volume(s).  In most cases, if the serial numbers for the Spencer before and after your own serial number were issued to the same unit, I assume your Spencer  MAY  have been assigned to the same unit.  Or, if your Spencer serial number is very, very close to another Spencer serial number in my SRS volume(s),  I assume your Spencer MAY have been issued to the same unit.

I call this "unscientific conjecture" the "Two Flints guesstimation".  I'm guessing and estimating at the same time on what I believe to be correct  information based upon the information I find in my four volume set of SRS.   I certainly and absolutely make no claim to the accuracy of my "unscientific conjecture" and you should use the information I offer only if you want to, and not to accept it as "Gospel". 

Other SSS members and even guests of SSS may post a comment suggesting that my serial # information is completely inaccurate,  but haven't I already done that with my disclaimer?   

In any case, the serial # information I provide is only a starting point, at best, and you should perhaps research the history of your Spencer Carbine with whatever resources you can find on the Internet or else where.

Now, regarding your Spencer Carbine, serial # 36503, according to my SRS Volume, I find that your Spencer Carbine may have been issued or re-issued to a member of Co I of the 3rd Michigan Volunteer Cavalry on or about June, 1864.

Hope this is of some value to you.

Two Flints

[Cantineflas]

Thanks two flints.....A good starting point, have you any suggestions as too where I might begin my research. 

Richard

[Two Flints]

Google search the unit I mentioned and just go from there - but remember my disclaimer! You may find info on that particular unit on the Internet, even photos of soldiers in that unit.

For example, I found this paragraph:

During the early days of 1864, many Union regiments re-enlisted and were given veteran furloughs. They would turn in their arms before going on leave and often, upon returning, be issued different ones. In this manner, cavalry regiments, such as the 2nd and 3rd Michigan, were issued Spencer carbines (2nd) and Starr carbines (for the 3rd) to replace their Colt rifles. One cavalry regiment mainly armed with the Colt revolving rifles (357) during the first half of the year was the 9th Illinois Cavalry. The 9th had received its Colt rifles in April 1863. The historian of the 9th states that the Colt was a very effective arm but did have one serious drawback. When the rifle was being discharged, it would shoot splinters of lead into the left wrist and hand of the person firing it.

from using this Google produced link (although this indicated the 3rd received some Starr Carbines)

http://www.ftabercrombie.org/Small%20Arms%20&%20Artillery/Colt%20Revolving%20Rifle.htm

There is quite a bit of info on the 3rd Michigan Cavalary

Two Flints

[Cantineflas]

Thanks again Two Flints.....did a little web search and found out the 3rd Michigan Calvary was in San Antonio Texas at the end of the Civil War. I live in San Antonio and bought the Spencer here.....could it be that it has been in San Antonio, or close by, since the end of the war??  From Civil War Archive: March from Shreveport to San Antonio, Texas, July 10-August 2 1865. Garrison duty at San Antonio and scouting along frontier to Rio Grande until February 12, 1866. Mustered out February 12 and discharged at Jackson, Mich., March 15, 1866.
regards
Richard

[Two Flints]

Hi Cantineflas,

I never got to respond to your last post and question, as someone posted a non-related question after your post.  So here is my answer to your question, "was it possible that the Spencer Carbine I recently purchased in San Antonio was because of the presence of the 3rd Michigan Cavalry?  Yup, pretty good chance it was sold in San Antonio, or remained with someone from the 3rd, who may have decided to stay in Texas when the unit was disbanded after the Civil War.  Check out this copy with info about the 3rd Michigan Cavalry and her troop membership.

MICHIGAN THIRD CAVALRY

    The Third Cavalry contained between eighty and one hundred men from Livingston County; these being most numerous in Company G, but a considerable number being found in Companies I and L, and a few in other companies.

    The regiment was raised in the summer and fall of 1861, having its rendezvous at Grand Rapids. It left that place more than a thousand strong, November 18, 1861, and proceeded to St. Louis, Missouri, where it remained in winter quarters at the Benton Barracks. In 1862 it moved south, and participated in the operations at New Madrid and Island Number Ten, also in the siege of Corinth, and the subsequent campaign in Northern Mississippi, where it remained during the entire season, capturing in that series of operations twelve hundred and eighty-six prisoners of the enemy, among whom were five field and thirty-two line officers. It passed the winter in Northern Mississippi, and in 1863 was again employed in that State and Western Tennessee in almost continuous marching, fighting, and raiding, and by the first of November in that year had taken an additional number of prisoners, sufficient to make the whole number captured by it since its commencement of service two thousand one hundred, of whom about fifty were officers. "During the year (from January 1 to November 1, 1863) the regiment marched a distance of ten thousand eight hundred miles, exclusive of marches by separate companies and detachments." Accompanying the Third in its movements, was a light battery of twelve-pound howitzers. On the first of January, 1864, the regiment arrived at La Grange, Tennessee, where it prepared winter quarters, and where, during January, nearly six hundred of its members re-enlisted as veterans, and received the usual furlough, to rendezvous at Kalamazoo. From that place they moved, with their numbers largely augmented by recruits, to St. Louis, where they remained about two months on provost duty in the city, while awaiting the arrival of new horses and equipments. Still dismounted, the regiment moved May 18th, and proceeded to Arkansas, there joining the army of General Steele. It was mounted and armed with the Spencer repeating-carbine on the first of August, and from that time until winter was engaged in scouting and outpost duty in that State. Its winter quarters were at Brownsville Station, on the Memphis and Little Rock Railroad. On the fourteenth of March it was transferred from Arkansas to the military division of West Mississippi, under General Canby, to move with the forces designed to operate against Mobile. After the fall of that city the regiment was employed on outpost duty till after the surrender of Lee and Johnston, and was then detailed as the escort of General Canby, on the occasion of his receiving the surrender of the Confederate General Taylor and his army. It moved across the country from Mobile to Baton Rouge, Louisiana, arriving there May 22, 1865. On Sheridan's assuming command of the Division of the Southwest, the Third was ordered to join troops designed for Texas, and left Baton Rouge June 10th, moving by way of Shreveport, and across Texas to San Antonio, where it remained, employed in garrison duty, scouting expeditions for the protection of the frontier, and other similar duty till February 15, 1866, when it was dismounted and mustered out of service. The men returned via Victoria, Indianola, New Orleans, and Cairo, Illinois, to Jackson, Michigan, and there received their final payment, March 15, 1866.

MEMBERS OF THE THIRD CAVALRY FROM LIVINGSTON COUNTY

Company G

Second Lieutenant James R. Pinckney, Hamburg, September 21, 1861; promoted to first lieutenant; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Quartermaster-Sergeant Henry Pinckney, Hamburg, enlisted September 17, 1861; promoted to second lieutenant, Company L.
Sergeant Daniel P. Barker, enlisted September 14, 1861; died of disease at St. Louis, Missouri, October 18, 1862.
Sergeant David A. Wilson, enlisted October 10th, 1861; discharged for disability, June 30, 1862.
Corporal Edward M. Hall, enlisted September 6, 1861 ; discharged for disability, October 15, 1862.
Corporal Asa Smith, enlisted September 6, 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864; discharged for disability, November 26, 1864.
Corporal Witman S. Hall, enlisted September 6, 1861; veteran, January 19th, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Privates

Samuel Avis, Green Oak, enlisted February 24, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Alanson A. Brown, enlisted September 10, 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Marshall Borden, enlisted September 6, 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
John G. Barlow, enlisted February 18, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
LaFayette Bennett, enlisted February 15, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Ambrose W. Brown, enlisted February 22, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
George Clinton, Putnam, farrier; veteran, January 19, 1874; mustered out February 12, 1866.
110. John F. Cunningham, enlisted September. 28, 1861; died of disease at Rienzi, Mississippi, June 30, 1862.
Charles Connor, enlisted September 23, 166 1; veteran, January 19, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
William M. Cole, enlisted December 1, 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Christopher Clinton, Putnam, enlisted December 16, 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
John Fitzgerald, Brighton, enlisted February 25, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Murray Grady, enlisted September 6. 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
James L. Hawley, enlisted September 17, 1861; discharged for disability, November 10, 1862.
William Keene, enlisted January 26, 1864; mustered out June 30, 1865.
David A. Livingston; discharged for disability, October 15, 1862.
Thomas Lound, Hamburg, enlisted September 18, 1861; veteran, February 8, 1864; mustered out September 25, 1865.
Henry Olsaver, Green Oak, enlisted September 17, 1861; discharged for disability, November 16, 1862.
William C. Olsaver, Green Oak, enlisted February 24, 1864; mustered out
February 12, 1866.
David R. O'Neal, Brighton, enlisted February 10, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Thomas D. Osborn, Green Oak, enlisted February 27, 1864; mustered out
February 12, 1866.
Lucien Power, Hamburg, enlisted February 10, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Joseph Placeway, Brighton, enlisted February 10, 1864; mustered out September 29, 1865.
Orrin Palmer, Putnam, enlisted October 17, 1861; died of disease in Ohio, July 20, 1862.
Sylvester Smith, Hamburg, enlisted October 22, 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Daniel L. Smith, veteran, January 19, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Erastus Smith, enlisted September 18, 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Andrew I. Sawyer, Hamburg, enlisted February 14, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Samuel F. Shannon, Green Oak, enlisted February 18, 1864; mustered out
February 12, 1866.
Thomas Trainor, enlisted September 24, 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Charles D. Williams, enlisted October 22, 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
La Fayette Winans, Green Oak, enlisted February 22, 1864; died of disease in Green Oak, Michigan, August 11, 1864.
Company I

Captain Henry J. Pinckney, Hamburg, October 24, 1864 (first lieutenant, August 13, 1863; second lieutenant, December 20, 1862); mustered out February 12, 1866.
Second Lieutenant C. W. Tenny, Hartland, mustered out February 12, 1866.
David W. Adams, Hartland, enlisted September 7, 1861; discharged for disability, January 25, 1862.
Amos J. Beebe, Oceola, enlisted September 19, 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Eugene Bly, enlisted August 28, 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Harrison Chase, enlisted October 25, 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Jerome Carrier, enlisted September 2, 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
John Cranston, Tyrone, enlisted February 16, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Charles Crippen, enlisted September 13, 1861; discharged at end of service, October 24, 1864.
John Ford, Oceola, enlisted February 27, 1864; mustered out March 16, 1866.
Quintus Foster, Hartland, enlisted January 16, 1864; mustered out March 16, 1866.
Thomas Graham, Hartland, enlisted September 17, 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1860.
John Graham, Hartland, enlisted January 4, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Robert Graham, Hartland, enlisted January 5, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Charles W. Hamilton, Tyrone, enlisted January 27, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
James R. Price, Hartland, enlisted September, 18, 1861; discharged for disability.
Edwin Rogers, Brighton, enlisted February 27, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Jacob Shook, Tyrone, enlisted February 4, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Peter Shook, Tyrone, enlisted February 1, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Martin V. Stewart, Hartland, enlisted October 9, 1861; died in action at Iuka, Mississippi, September 13, 1862.
John Sayers, Hartland, enlisted January 4, 1864; died of disease at St. John's, Missouri, July 10, 1865.
David C. Smith, Hartland, discharged for disability, April 4, 1863.
James Welch, Hartland, enlisted January 4, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Company L

Edward Clinton, enlisted October 1, 1861; discharged for disability, February, 1862.
Robert W. Caskey, Iosco, enlisted October 1, 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Ezra A. Fox, Handy, enlisted October 1, 1861; died of disease in Indiana, May 1, 1862.
David W. Kennedy, Hamburg, enlisted August 27, 1862; mustered out June 2, 1865.
Charles M. Loree, Handy, enlisted October 9, 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Joseph C. Loree, Handy, enlisted October 1, 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864.
Alvin Loree, Handy, enlisted October 9, 1861; died of disease, July 20, 1862, in Tennessee.
Michael McManus, sergeant, Handy, enlisted September 20, 1861 discharged for disability, April 15, 1862.
Thomas Moore, Handy, enlisted October 1, 1861; died in action at Moulton, Alabama, July 21, 1862.
D. R. Newman, Handy, enlisted November 9, 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864; mustered out February 12, 1866.
James L, Tubbs, farrier, enlisted October 1, 1861; discharged for disability, April 15, 1862.
George J. Whitehead, Handy, enlisted October 1, 1861; mustered out February 12, 1866.
Other Companies

Edward Denson, Company B; enlisted September 9, 1861; veteran, January 19, 1864; died of disease on Mississippi River, October 17, 1864.
William Drumm, Howell, Company B; enlisted March 5, 1864; mustered out
February 12, 1866.
Daniel Campbell, Hartland, Company E; enlisted February 15, 1864; discharged for disability, October 1, 1864.
Emanuel Kirby, Green Oak, Company F; enlisted January 3, 1864; died of disease at Duvall's Bluff, September 19, 1864.
Charles W. Tenney, sergeant, veteran, January 19, 1864; promoted to second lieutenant, Company I.
Bradley B. Norton, Hartland, Company A; enlisted January 14, 1864; died of disease at Duvall's Bluff, June 21, 1864.
George M. Wallace, Hamburg, Company D; enlisted January 25, 1864; mustered out September 19, 1865.