Hunting with BPCRs

PJ Hardtack · March 14, 2011, 11:40:06 AM

How many actually hunt with their BPCR 'buffler guns'?

My scoped .308s used to be my 'go to' meat guns, never failing to drop game out to 200 yards; a long shot where I hunt. Then I got a Browning '86 in 45-70 for CAS and took it hunting. It has taken two moose for me with a smokeless BP-equivalent load (28 grs 5744) and my cast 420 bullets; furthest one was 75 yards, closest 20. Both heart shots.
Then I got my Shiloh 50-70 Military Rifle, which has become my hunting rifle of choice. It has taken two 400+lb black bears at 100 yards and a 4 point Mule Deer at 50, all with BP. I've only recovered one bullet that hit a large bone.
I've even taken four Ruffed Grouse with this rifle; two clean head shots, one that basically gutted the bird leaving the breast meat untouched and one with a .50 calibre sized hole in one breast.
You need a draw tag for moose in this region, but I still 'hunt' moose, getting close to many moose I cannot shoot - :>(
Only time I've felt slightly undergunned was when stepping into fresh Grizzly tracks. I ceded the ground to him and went elsewhere.

Ranch 13 · March 14, 2011, 11:50:25 AM

PJ Hardtack · March 14, 2011, 06:36:06 PM

Ranch 13

Lovely, absolutely lovely! Calibre? Appears to be a long case .45 ...... and with the factory buckhorn sights! Well done.

Ranch 13 · March 14, 2011, 09:10:03 PM

It's my goofy chambered Italian. The barrel is marked 45-70 but it won't quite chamber a 45-90, so I trim long brass down to just short of 2.25 . The load was 80 grs Goex 1f, 520 gr patched bullet.

Blackpowder Burn · March 15, 2011, 07:26:09 AM

Obviously an excellent hunter, too, as well as rifle shot - too get close enough to shoot an antelope with one of those cartridges. Antelope eyesight and rainbow trajectory make for a tricky shot.

shrapnel · April 02, 2011, 12:04:24 PM

I have been hunting and killing with these guns for over 25 years, shooting everything from rabbits to Black Angus and buffalo...

Blackpowder Burn · April 02, 2011, 08:09:54 PM

Looks like a wonderful 25 years.

Don Nix · April 02, 2011, 10:28:38 PM

I gotta know. Hunting Black Angus?
Surely your not hunting someones cattle.

Mossyrock · April 03, 2011, 09:38:12 AM

Shrapnel, I really wish you would stop posting pics of that conversion carbine. Every time I think I am over the serious "gotta haves" for one of those, you trot out more pictures. Maybe I DO need one to go with my Custer-era Trapdoor carbine.....

shrapnel · April 03, 2011, 10:10:25 AM

Quote from: Don Nix on April 02, 2011, 10:28:38 PM
I gotta know. Hunting Black Angus?
Surely your not hunting someones cattle.

I was hunting on my cousin's ranch near Musselshell, Montana and he told me he had a cow with cancer in the lower jaw. He knows how I like to shoot stuff, so he told me to go to the southern section of the ranch and shoot the cow, then drag her into a ravine for disposal.

I went there and had my son along with a video camera to record it, but the cow would have nothing to do with us, and took off like any game animal I have ever hunted. It ended up being the toughest hunt that fall as I had to stalk the cow just as I would an elk. I finally got it by sneaking up on top of a hill overlooking a ravine and waited for her to come up the draw into rifle distance.

shrapnel · April 03, 2011, 10:11:36 AM

Quote from: Mossyrock on April 03, 2011, 09:38:12 AM
Shrapnel, I really wish you would stop posting pics of that conversion carbine. Every time I think I am over the serious "gotta haves" for one of those, you trot out more pictures. Maybe I DO need one to go with my Custer-era Trapdoor carbine.....

Here's another...

PJ Hardtack · April 04, 2011, 11:44:32 AM

Shrapnel

You're breaking our hearts! There's nothing like taking game with a BPCR and even better with originals for those who own them.
Think I'll break out the Shioh Military Rifle 50-70 today and head to the range. Spring bear season isn't far off.

Say ... are you the "Shrapnel" mad famous (infamous?) by Mike Venturino?

shrapnel · April 06, 2011, 11:28:18 PM

Actually, you have it backwards, Shrapnel made Mike Venturino famous. I have been working with him on his books and articles for over 25 years. He actually gave me credit for getting him his first lever action rifle that later turned into his book "Shooting Lever Actions of the Old West".

I have always been more active with these types of guns in the field, Mike on the range. I couldn't beat him in a BPCR match and he couldn't out shoot me hunting. Mike is a real nice guy and has been good to me over the years, more like a brother than a friend. Shrapnel just came about due to some real bad luck with a couple old guns, the other stories are true too, but more for fun. He kept getting letters and questions about "Shrapnel" and we have continued to write the stories. I do the stuff, he writes about it.

PJ Hardtack · April 07, 2011, 11:52:30 AM

Shrapnel - It's a real pleasure tameetcha, Sir! A living literary icon. I often wondered, "Who is this mystical character?", so it's good to have a face put to the name.
I've had the pleasure of meeting and shooting in a couple of CAS matches attended by MLV in Idaho. This was just on the cusp of him leaving CAS for BPCR Silhouette out of sheer disgust. Butch Ulsher was another. Both deplored the devolution of Cowboy Action Shooting into IPSC in Cowboy Boots.

Well, I did take my Shiloh 50-70 Military Rifle to the range yesterday where it promptly threw a shoe. I had three consecutive failures to fire. The new blocks have always given an off-centre primer strike, but they've always gone "Bang!" before. Then the hammer began to fall to half-cock and finally failed to hold at full cock.
Fortunately, I had another rifle with me that works - every time; one of my Parker-Hale .577 Enfields. This rifle puts .564 RB/55 ffg into cloverleaves at 25 yards and prints three rounds into a group you could cover with a fifty-cent coin at 50. All off-hand, heavy trigger pull and barley corn sights, BTW. The wind precluded shooting at 100.

Backattheranch .... I pulled the lock from the 50-70 and I was able to get it to hold at full cock, but my, what a powerful hammer spring! I mean horrendous! I think I may have worn the full cock notch with the excessive hammer spring tension. I'm going to do a parts switch with one of my other Shilohs and see if that helps. Got a method of reducing the hammer spring tension that won't get us both written up by MLV?

A few years back, I 'converted' two of my Farmingdale Sharps (with the old 'H' type firing pin) to the modern small two-piece type. I sent them my blocks and received a pair of current blocks, but they kept the old ones. I politely asked for them back, and they complied. Guess what's going back into both rifles? I have three of the old firings pins on hand, so I'm good for a while. I suspect that the heavy hammer fall had something to do with the breakage of the old pin.
I'd ask for input on the Shiloh site, but after returning my NIB 50-70 carbine the day after I received it, I'd be burned in effigy by the "faithful'' for heresy. I'm becoming disillusioned with Shiloh. I don't dare tell my Uberti-Sharps pals about my trials and tribulations.

shrapnel · April 07, 2011, 08:22:55 PM

Quote from: PJ Hardtack on April 07, 2011, 11:52:30 AM
Shrapnel - It's a real pleasure tameetcha, Sir! A living literary icon. I often wondered, "Who is this mystical character?", so it's good to have a face put to the name.
I've had the pleasure of meeting and shooting in a couple of CAS matches attended by MLV in Idaho. This was just on the cusp of him leaving CAS for BPCR Silhouette out of sheer disgust. Butch Ulsher was another. Both deplored the devolution of Cowboy Action Shooting into IPSC in Cowboy Boots.

Well, I did take my Shiloh 50-70 Military Rifle to the range yesterday where it promptly threw a shoe. I had three consecutive failures to fire. The new blocks have always given an off-centre primer strike, but they've always gone "Bang!" before. Then the hammer began to fall to half-cock and finally failed to hold at full cock.
Fortunately, I had another rifle with me that works - every time; one of my Parker-Hale .577 Enfields. This rifle puts .564 RB/55 ffg into cloverleaves at 25 yards and prints three rounds into a group you could cover with a fifty-cent coin at 50. All off-hand, heavy trigger pull and barley corn sights, BTW. The wind precluded shooting at 100.

Backattheranch .... I pulled the lock from the 50-70 and I was able to get it to hold at full cock, but my, what a powerful hammer spring! I mean horrendous! I think I may have worn the full cock notch with the excessive hammer spring tension. I'm going to do a parts switch with one of my other Shilohs and see if that helps. Got a method of reducing the hammer spring tension that won't get us both written up by MLV?

A few years back, I 'converted' two of my Farmingdale Sharps (with the old 'H' type firing pin) to the modern small two-piece type. I sent them my blocks and received a pair of current blocks, but they kept the old ones. I politely asked for them back, and they complied. Guess what's going back into both rifles? I have three of the old firings pins on hand, so I'm good for a while. I suspect that the heavy hammer fall had something to do with the breakage of the old pin.
I'd ask for input on the Shiloh site, but after returning my NIB 50-70 carbine the day after I received it, I'd be burned in effigy by the "faithful'' for heresy. I'm becoming disillusioned with Shiloh. I don't dare tell my Uberti-Sharps pals about my trials and tribulations.

My original 50-70 carbine has a terrible hammer spring and can be lighted easily. I had Tom Sargis do mine at Bozeman Trail Gunsmithing, and it came out to an easy clean 4-5 pound trigger pull. It is worth the fix.

As far as Shiloh goes, I can't believe they would be so inattentive to the problems you describe. I wouldn't be afraid of hitting the Shiloh website and specifically asking Kirk for some help. He has been more than fair with me, I am in his debt for the work he has done for me and asked nothing in return. I once had a need for an inside neck reamer and couldn't find such an animal, he ordered two reamers and customized the one to make one for me that worked perfectly.

Shiloh is great people, I would highly recommend another try at those problems. I would even guess they should fix that heavy hammer spring. If it is a Farmingdale Sharps, they might want to charge, I don't know as they bought this company from Wolfgang Droege in 1991, years after they left New York...

dusty texian · December 10, 2012, 10:15:56 AM

Hunting with the BPCR HAS PUT THE FUN BACK INTO HUNTING FOR ME . Here is a pic. from this season. Dusty.

Dusty Morningwood · December 13, 2012, 03:30:03 PM

I keep threatening to take my Husqvarna fullstocked 20 gauge rifle hunting, but haven't yet. I am pretty sure I can kill any big game under 100yds with its .662 dia ball.

Roosterman · December 13, 2012, 04:59:26 PM

I don't think I've ever used anything but BP to kill birds, but ufortunately BPCR's are illegal for deer hunting in Iowa except for the lower three tiers of counties........I'm not driving that far to kill deer.

dusty texian · December 13, 2012, 05:10:55 PM

It is a sad thing when it is not legal to ues a type firearm to take deer ,that made it possible for the people in power to be there in Iowa . With bpcr rifles and old time muzzeloaders that state was setteled . Just saying how things get turned around . Dusty Texian.

PJ Hardtack · December 14, 2012, 10:47:04 AM

Eco-warriors are doing their best to have lead bullets banned totally. If you have any intentions of taking game with a BPCR, grouse with lead shot or small game with a .22 LR, you may be among the last to do so.
When they started with lead shot because of alleged lead poisoning of waterfowl I was in disbelief. Then it was California Condors eating game shot with lead core rifle bullets.

Established ranges are deemed OK for lead, as the ground is already contaminated. New ranges will have to use alternatives. Don't underestimate the power of these do-gooders.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of it's victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies.
The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those that torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."

C.S. Lewis