Where Did USFA's Steam Wander Off To?

mtone · December 13, 2012, 10:49:52 AM

Just my opinion, but your chance of getting a tour is probably a little less than "0". I'm just going on the assumption that there's nothing to look at.

Old Doc · December 13, 2012, 11:00:17 AM

When I was a kid, zip guns were illegal . I guess things have changed .

Billy Bristol · December 14, 2012, 12:08:46 PM

well i went to USFA. couldn't get past the receptionist. She did tell me they are currently working on a 2yr backlog and are not taking orders for single actions til after the first of the year. there were only 5 cars in the parking lot. I would thimk it will take awhile to finish up with a 2yr backlog if there are only 3 or 4 people working in the back. Does not look good to me.

Hoof Hearted · December 14, 2012, 12:50:11 PM

I think we should all cross our fingers that those folks that have an order (from two years ago) get their guns $:-\$

HH

Abilene · December 14, 2012, 01:03:51 PM

Dakota Doc Martin posted this yesterday on the SASS Wire:

"I emailed Joe Macrino, a dealer that lives near the USFA factory and who knows/knew everyone working there. He always knows what's going on at USFA.

A year ago, there were only four people making SAA's. Now, it's down to ONE! Gary Granger left the company. And, they have a huge back order list of at least a year. With everything being made by CNC I guess it's possible for one person to make SAA's but not very efficiently..."

FWIW.

Billy Bristol · December 14, 2012, 01:07:13 PM

I know if I owned a company that had a backlog even a quarter of that I would have invested in more equipment and workers. To me a 2yr backlog would mean I was making a great product and would want to keep customers happy.

St. George · December 14, 2012, 01:39:32 PM

A two-year backlog could also mean that their capacity was low at that time, and not getting any better.

Hard to do when you've sold off all that equipment, and let everyone go.

Scouts Out!

Billy Bristol · December 14, 2012, 01:46:14 PM

well I hope they aren't just trying to fill the back logged orders before closing. Won't really know what is going to happen til after the new year I guess.

St. George · December 14, 2012, 02:05:15 PM

I'd like to know where they plan to get parts, since the bulk of those were sold, as well.

Scouts Out!

wileycoyote · December 14, 2012, 03:28:47 PM

thnx for the update Billy Bristol.

sad, damn sad...

Old Doc · December 15, 2012, 07:03:10 AM

Quote from: Old Doc on December 13, 2012, 11:00:17 AM
When I was a kid, zip guns were illegal . I guess things have changed .

I was joking when I wrote that but this morning I clicked on one of my bookmarks that used to take me to the USFA page of high resolution photos of single actions. Instead, it now takes me to the Zip homepage touting this wonderful new product. On that site there are actual links to YouTube videos showing how to make your own homemade guns from springs and pieces of pipe.
Excuse me, I believe the ATF frowns on that . Are these links supposed to demonstrate "The History and Evolution of The Zipgun" What is this guy thinking ? Has he completely gone off the deep end ?

Billy Bristol · December 15, 2012, 09:49:37 AM

I did a little research on USFA. It seems they started out in the Colt Building in Hartford with up to date equipment. When I went to their place on Ledyard Street, which is where they are now, the place wasn't much bigger than my house in area. There were also only 5 vehicles in the parking lot. It seems to me that would be a huge step down. Having been in manufacturing for over 30 years my assessment would be that this is a failing company. If they do survive long enough to catch up on back orders I would not expect much from them after that.

Old Doc · December 15, 2012, 10:24:33 AM

Quote from: Billy Bristol on December 15, 2012, 09:49:37 AM
I did a little research on USFA. It seems they started out in the Colt Building in Hartford with up to date equipment. When I went to their place on Ledyard Street, which is where they are now, the place wasn't much bigger than my house in area. There were also only 5 vehicles in the parking lot. It seems to me that would be a huge step down. Having been in manufacturing for over 30 years my assessment would be that this is a failing company. If they do survive long enough to catch up on back orders I would not expect much from them after that.

I don't know about the Ledyard St address but I read somewhere that after they bought the Colt factory, they found out that the building was too old to accommodate the weight of the new CNC equipment and so they moved the manufacturing out of the building to a new facility . Whether or not that was the Ledyard St address, I do not know . Hold on.....

The packrat in me pays off again ! Just resurrected frm my library, which my wife refers to as the Black Hole of Calcutta, an article from the Nov/Dec issue of the now defunct Shoot magazine. In it , there is an article about the history of USFA. It states that for the first 11 years , the guns were produced in the old Colt factory, under the blue dome . In 2001-2002 they moved to a state of the art , 30000 sq. ft. manufacturing ,which became a necessity, when additional CNC milling units were acquired and it was determined that the wood beam floors of the old Colt building were not designed to hold the additional weight. "Tucked away on a two lane side street off I-91, this unobtrusive building belies the high tech industry that is housed within."
The address given for USFA in this 2006 article is 445-453 Ledyard St. Does that address now look like it houses a 30,000 sq. ft. state of the art maufacturing facility ? That article also shows a photo of 7 men with the caption, "The USFA machinists standing in front of one of their CNC milling machines "

Billy Bristol · December 15, 2012, 11:28:24 AM

The building they are in looks to be half warehouse with 3 loading docks and then their section. There might be 30000 sq feet all together but I think what they were saying was all hype. Other than 2 trailers backed up to the loading docks there are only 5 cars in the parking lot. The parking lot is in need of repair and the building does not look like a place I would buy a firearm from. They do have the windows on one half of the building shaded so no one can look in. I have seen fly by the night manufacturers with better looking facilities. But then I guess it all depends on the work force for quality. I just don't see them making it though. I wish I knew the owner and could talk to him directly. They may be good at making the firearms in small quantities but just not knowledgeable in production machining. That would account for the back log. I know several people who are experts at hand fitting stuff in short time. So I am sure they could make it with some help in the production area.

Professor Marvel · December 15, 2012, 09:48:08 PM

My Good Old Doc

Quote from: Old Doc on December 15, 2012, 07:03:10 AM
I was joking when I wrote that but this morning I clicked on one of my bookmarks that used to take me to the USFA page of high resolution photos of single actions. Instead, it now takes me to the Zip homepage touting this wonderful new product. On that site there are actual links to YouTube videos showing how to make your own homemade guns from springs and pieces of pipe.
Excuse me, I believe the ATF frowns on that .

The home construction of a firearm for personal use is entirely legal as long as the builder coukld legally own or purchase one.
Restrictions are the same as any purchased firearm, ie: rifled barrel, barrel length, overall length, NFA weapons, etc etc

anything violating those restrictions (such as the youtubed "pipe guns" ) are in fact illegal as you surmised. One wonders why an enterprising ATF agent is not trolling youtube for this stuff....

Quote from: Old Doc on December 15, 2012, 07:03:10 AM
What is this guy thinking ? Has he completely gone off the deep end ?

Yes, actually he has :-(
that's all I can figure, dumping a perfectly sound, profitable company and employees for this plastic nightmare wetdream.
Remind me of McaFee (yah the computer nutcase)

yhs
prof marvel

mtone · December 16, 2012, 02:29:10 PM

I would question whether it was really profitable. In the good times, I was told USFA only averaged 250/month.

wileycoyote · December 16, 2012, 02:44:48 PM

mtone: that begs the question of approximately how many USFA SA have been made. any clue?

mtone · December 17, 2012, 09:05:39 AM

If 250 is correct, then that would mean 3000/year. Multiply that by the average dealer price (mix of Rodeos, SA, Pre War, etc) and you should be very close to the gross. Subtract the 10% excise tax and all the other costs associated with making any product and that will give you an idea how profitable they were. All I would add is that according to a couple of prominent dealers and Davidsons, delivers really dropped off starting in 2010.

wileycoyote · December 17, 2012, 09:59:11 AM

so if my math is correct and our rough estimates are somewhat close, at best maybe a total of 25-35K of american-made SA produced over the years. not a lot when compared to companies like ruger.

mtone · December 17, 2012, 10:21:31 AM

Figure average dealer cost at $700 (lower than that back in the earlier years), that's $2.1/year. Subtract 10%, labor costs (including SS), taxes, materials, Rent/morttgage(?), utilities, upgrades/maintainence, etc. Depending on how you work the numbers, you can come up with something less than 0. as some one once said after a tour "very impressive but they (USFA) figured out a way to make a product at the highest cost possible". I'm paraphrasing but you get the idea.