Where Did USFA's Steam Wander Off To?

[Pettifogger]

That is correct. However since this is a CAS website I was assuming you wanted a gun representative of the 19th century. Maybe not. 

Precisely, that's why I shoot New Vaqueros instead of the old style Vaquero.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Precisely, that's why I shoot New Vaqueros instead of the old style Vaquero.

PLEASEEEEEEE, Pettifogger!! I own Rugers for target shooting & woods walking but I would wear a pink tutu & slippers for CAS before I shot Rugers there!! 

[Skeeter Lewis]

Yes, USFA have made the occasional marketing error. But so what? We're lucky to have them. They make a top-range product. The guy in charge deserves our thanks. Just my two cents' worth...

[Doc Sunrise]

Let's hope someone is listening to the comments for USFA.  Quit playing around and get back to running a business.  You have some great craftsmen and craftswomen available with some seriously hi-tech machinery that want to perform.  But like any company, it needs leadership to continue to grow, and that starts at the top!

[Harley Starr]

Let's hope someone is listening to the comments for USFA.  Quit playing around and get back to running a business.  You have some great craftsmen and craftswomen available with some seriously hi-tech machinery that want to perform.  But like any company, it needs leadership to continue to grow, and that starts at the top!

Agreed.

[Deadeye Don]

Let's hope someone is listening to the comments for USFA.  Quit playing around and get back to running a business.  You have some great craftsmen and craftswomen available with some seriously hi-tech machinery that want to perform.  But like any company, it needs leadership to continue to grow, and that starts at the top!

I think you hit the nail on the head.  They have not been listening or communicating with their customer base for quite some time now.

[Regret Chancy]

No disrespect meant to anyone posting here complaining about what they want and whats available but Uberti is the catch all at this time. With the awful economy and poor political figures elected to office our great country is continually getting worse. As a United States Marine I saw how hated we Americans are in other countries no matter what they say . In my opinion Uberti is going to continue to dominate the cowboy shooting market because of price and selection . Colt and USFA are going to maintain a niche market for people who require a high quality saa and will pay the asking price. I know locally I can buy 2 Uberti pistols if not 3 for the price of 1 USFA . I can buy 4 or 5 Ubertis for the price of 1 Colt . I wont get into other comparisons. I love my USFA's and wouldnt trade 1 for 5 Uberti's.

Now to those who are griping about the Remington fiasco. Remington was getting requests for the 1875 and 1890 models and contacted outside suppliers for a potential subcontractor. This is where it gets confusing for most because REMINGTON neglected to inform those contacted that it was a competition. So everyone building these prototypes thought they had the contract. REMINGTON then chose EMF as the only distributor that built a high enough quality pistol to get the Remington stamp of approval. So those blaming USFA should maybe take a better look at the facts they are basing the bad feelings on .
              Regret Chancy

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

No disrespect meant to anyone posting here complaining about what they want and whats available but Uberti is the catch all at this time. With the awful economy and poor political figures elected to office our great country is continually getting worse. As a United States Marine I saw how hated we Americans are in other countries no matter what they say . In my opinion Uberti is going to continue to dominate the cowboy shooting market because of price and selection . Colt and USFA are going to maintain a niche market for people who require a high quality saa and will pay the asking price. I know locally I can buy 2 Uberti pistols if not 3 for the price of 1 USFA . I can buy 4 or 5 Ubertis for the price of 1 Colt . I wont get into other comparisons. I love my USFA's and wouldnt trade 1 for 5 Uberti's.

Now to those who are griping about the Remington fiasco. Remington was getting requests for the 1875 and 1890 models and contacted outside suppliers for a potential subcontractor. This is where it gets confusing for most because REMINGTON neglected to inform those contacted that it was a competition. So everyone building these prototypes thought they had the contract. REMINGTON then chose EMF as the only distributor that built a high enough quality pistol to get the Remington stamp of approval. So those blaming USFA should maybe take a better look at the facts they are basing the bad feelings on .
              Regret Chancy

   With all due respect, your statement doesn't make any since at all, all the talk about a USFA Remington reproductions was done by USFA them selves, EMF does not make guns, they're an importer and distributor only, there has never been any talk from EMF on this that I know of, and I'm in touch with them regularly. if I'm wrong about this , tell me where it is stated by Remington, I would like to read what they have to say, and I know others would like to also.

                   Regards

              tEN wOLVES

                                 

[Regret Chancy]

Ten Wolves,
    I read all stated above in 1 of the 3 magazines. Guns of the Old West, The Shootist, or The Cowboy Chronicle. I am digging through the back issues to find the exact page, month, and mag for you. At the time of my discharge I was involved in Remingtons testing of a new sniper rifle with more tactical applications and heard this from some of the Remington employee's as a possibility back then. I dismissed it as ridiculous at the time and when discovered in print the above mentioned fiasco promptly sold, traded, or gave away every Remington I owned made after 1980.
      I also know that EMF, like Cimarron, Beretta, and I think Taurus all buy the firearms from Uberti or Pietta. They do have them engraved and slicked up better than the stock Uberti's. With the big boom in the cowboy action shooting sports it seem's as if almost every where you look you will see Uberti's with someother companies name stamped on it. I personally dont like the Uberti SAA's but I do have a pair of Uberti Schofields, and a pair of Uberti 44 Russians and enjoy shooting them a bunch but, GOD I wish they were made in the USA.
     As I stated in my first post I MEAN NO DISRESPECT TO ANYONE and take no offense to anyone's statements back at me. I just hate to see a builder of one of the finest SAA's beat down due to company plan's not coming to fruition. They could be doing like the Merwin Hulbert plan of pay for it now and when they get enough of money and orders to pay for all the equipment then you can expect your pistol in 6 to 18 months maybe. I will post again when I find the info.
          Regret Chancy 

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Ten Wolves,
    I read all stated above in 1 of the 3 magazines. Guns of the Old West, The Shootist, or The Cowboy Chronicle. I am digging through the back issues to find the exact page, month, and mag for you. At the time of my discharge I was involved in Remingtons testing of a new sniper rifle with more tactical applications and heard this from some of the Remington employee's as a possibility back then. I dismissed it as ridiculous at the time and when discovered in print the above mentioned fiasco promptly sold, traded, or gave away every Remington I owned made after 1980.
      I also know that EMF, like Cimarron, Beretta, and I think Taurus all buy the firearms from Uberti or Pietta. They do have them engraved and slicked up better than the stock Uberti's. With the big boom in the cowboy action shooting sports it seem's as if almost every where you look you will see Uberti's with someother companies name stamped on it. I personally dont like the Uberti SAA's but I do have a pair of Uberti Schofields, and a pair of Uberti 44 Russians and enjoy shooting them a bunch but, GOD I wish they were made in the USA.
     As I stated in my first post I MEAN NO DISRESPECT TO ANYONE and take no offense to anyone's statements back at me. I just hate to see a builder of one of the finest SAA's beat down due to company plan's not coming to fruition. They could be doing like the Merwin Hulbert plan of pay for it now and when they get enough of money and orders to pay for all the equipment then you can expect your pistol in 6 to 18 months maybe. I will post again when I find the info.
          Regret Chancy 

  Regret, thanks for getting back, if you find those articles I would much appreciate seeing them, I think USFA makes fine guns, and I have no  problems with the fact that the Remingtons were dropped,  although it would have been nice, I think/ know that the times we are living in has caused a lot of company's to rethink their operations and what will make them money through these times, I hope they all do well, but even the imports are harder to find these days, I to wish Pietta and Uberti were US made, and think Pietta has done a great job in giving us a quality gun in their Great Western ll's, when it comes to USFA, we all need to keep the faith that things will get better for them, and that they will open their market to more western style weapons.

                   Congrats on your discharge, and thanks for your dedication and service, it's good to have you back home.

                                                Regards

                                              tEN wOLVES 

[Fox Creek Kid]

...Now to those who are griping about the Remington fiasco. Remington was getting requests for the 1875 and 1890 models and contacted outside suppliers for a potential subcontractor. This is where it gets confusing for most because REMINGTON neglected to inform those contacted that it was a competition. So everyone building these prototypes thought they had the contract. REMINGTON then chose EMF as the only distributor that built a high enough quality pistol to get the Remington stamp of approval. So those blaming USFA should maybe take a better look at the facts they are basing the bad feelings on .
              Regret Chancy

Sorry, but I call BS on this.

[Pettifogger]

Sorry, but I call BS on this.

+++111  "Remington chose EMF as the only distributor that built a high enough quality pistol to get the Remington stamp of approval."  Utter drivel.  EMF doesn't build anything, it only imports and has just started selling a few American made products.  The only Remingtons EMF has ever sold are the Uberti made copies of the 1875 and 1890 and darn few of those are sold.  Simple fact is there isn't enough demand to gear up for a mega expensive copy.  Hartford Armory tried, but they didn't sell enough to keep the guns in production.

[Doc Sunrise]

Demand!  Now we are at the meat of it.  What is the business model?  Niche market, or Economies of Scale.  Colt stuck to building one thing, and even in their Niche market with some steady commited buyers, quality faltered for a time, but Research & Development as well as Marketing were non-existant.  Uberti has found a way to use Economies of Scale to its advantage to replicate everything under the sun, quality is not supreme, but at their prices they don't need to make excuses.  You get what you pay for.

Where does this leave USFA.  They have quality for sure, but demand for quality with its associated price is not strong enough, and only a little stronger if there is a pony on the frame.  USFA is too small to capture any Economies of Scale.  USFA makes, and has made, some beautiful products, but it needs more demand.  Maybe, USFA should replicate the Python.  Now that would be interesting.

What to do?  I surely hope USFA's leadership can carefully navigate the company into creating enough demand.  It is truly between a Rock and a Hard Place.

[Deadeye Don]

Sorry, but I call BS on this.

Agreed.  I Regret that he has been misinformed.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Demand!  Now we are at the meat of it.  What is the business model?  Niche market, or Economies of Scale.  Colt stuck to building one thing, and even in their Niche market with some steady commited buyers, quality faltered for a time, but Research & Development as well as Marketing were non-existant...

Colt has never made just one handgun since the the early to mid 1800's. With all due respect Doc that is IMO a little over simplistic. One doesn't need an R&D Dept. for CAS guns. All they need to do is log onto CAS City & the SASS Wire for a week and use a little common sense. I honestly believe that USFA could have sold a few thousand of the '75 Remingtons as their prototype was for all intents & purposes a perfect clone and even had the Remington name. They could have offered say the first 1,000 with the Remington name and afterwards dropped that (and any ensuing royalties to Remington) for a lowered price model for those who just want an authentic looking '75. I guess too much attention is being paid to stupid "Red River" SAA's and ridiculous 12 shot .22's that never existed in history and only a few people want.

I would venture to say that USFA's market is made up mainly of two groups of people: those buying the Premium Grade SAA's and those buying the Rodeos such as Longhunter who is their No. 1 dealer. Personally, I would dump everything else and then set up a cell at USFA to make the Remingtons, Forehand & Wadsworth, etc. Hell, I would even write a CAD program for a Merwin & Hulbert. They would have people calling with credit cards in hand as they know that USFA makes a great product........when they make it. THAT would give them "steam". 

[Pettifogger]

Fox Creek, I mildly disagree with your estimate of the market.  Colt USE to make all kinds of products.  How many do they make now?  Two, the SAA and the 1911.  (Reports are that they may re-introduce the Mustang, but that is a miniature 1911.)  USFA thought there was a market for the Lightning.  They only sold 300 before having to pull the plug.  There is virtually zero market for the guns you describe.  They would indeed have people call with credit card in hand for some of the odd models.  Hell, I'd call for a couple.  But you and I and ten for fifteen cowboy shooters simply aren't enough of a market to warrant the capital investment to build some of the odd balls we have talked about.  I had a retail gun store and still have a lot of friends in the business.  Bottom line is the cowboy market has shrunk dramatically the past two or three years and very few local stores carry more than one or two cowboy guns anymore.  When they do, they sit on the shelves for months.

[Harley Starr]

I guess too much attention is being paid to stupid "Red River" SAA's and ridiculous 12 shot .22's that never existed in history and only a few people want.

I certainly wouldn't miss those.

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

  Bottom line is the cowboy market has shrunk dramatically the past two or three years and very few local stores carry more than one or two cowboy guns anymore.  When they do, they sit on the shelves for months.

   I have to disagree, in the last two in a half to three years, our dealers here in California haven't been able to get SAA, clones or any thing much western, I've been told they could sell them all day long if they could get them, certain brands of weapons have been very hard to get, even with the manufactures increasing their production, and that goes for modern weapons also, the demand is more than they can fill, I'm not sure how USFA is doing in this market, but others are doing well, even foreign importers are having trouble keeping up, ammo and loading manufactures are also in this, and most of us that reload know that we some times have had to wait several weeks to just get components. I mean no disrespect in what you are saying, but here in California, we can't buy guns if the dealers can't get the guns.

           Regards

          tEN wOLVES 

[Shadow SD]

quote]

I totally agree Capt.  The USFA SA's I own and others I've handled and shot are absolutely superb.  If they continue to focus on the guns they built their reputation on, continue to provide a superlative high quality product, and don't neglect the importance of good customer service, they will survive.

Shadow SD

[Major 2]

...    I also know that EMF, like Cimarron, Beretta, and I think Taurus all buy the firearms from Uberti or Pietta. They do have them engraved and slicked up better than the stock Uberti's. With the big boom in the cowboy action           Regret Chancy  

Then you are mistaken

EMF is no longer a Uberti Importer ..Pietta is their source
Cimarron ,Taylors and Stoeger are the Uberti Importers not Manufacturers
Cimarron has a line on Pietta now as well

Beretta is the Parent Company of Beretta, Benelli & Uberti  
Lastly Taurus is a S. American manufacturer does not import Uberti or Pietta, but does own Rossi

And just so you know at one time USFA was an Importer then a US assembler of Uberti
and now shares CNC software with Uberti