Picture of a blue jean in 1864 or 65

[Delmonico]

Or rather it sure looks like a pair.  I've been searching for some 1860's to early 1870's pictures of civilian men's clothing for some folks elsewhere and found this. I'd looked the picture over several times but missed it till a lady mentioned the cuffed legs and noticed it looked like denim.  There is another pair pictured in the Time Life Civil war books, I need to find it again and scan it.

From the Mathew Brady Collection on American Memory. 

[Petersburg, Va. Sutler's tent, 2d Division, 9th Corps].

CREATED/PUBLISHED
1864 November.

SUMMARY
Photograph from the main eastern theater of war, the siege of Petersburg, June 1864-April 1865.



This looks to me like the "jeans" have a way different fit, so that makes me think more they are.



The cuffs sure have that look:



There are some flaws in the negative, but after 148+ years you expect it, but there looks like two similar objects that are in the right place for rivets on the front pocket and the watch pocket:



BTW I draw worse with a mouse than I do a pencil:



If those are real Levis they'd also have the rivet at the bottom of the fly, the one that was removed from production in later years.

Has anyone heard the story that might be, could be true on why the rivet was removed?

It is said some higher up from the company was on a hunting trip wearing a pair of Levis, while warming himself around the fire the copper rivet conducted the heat to a part of his body he rather would not have had it happen to.  So the rivet was removed.  I've seen that story before several places, the Levi rep I talked to knew nothing of it, but that don't surprise me.

[Don Nix]

Thats the story Ive alays heard.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Notice how less than 5% (if that) of people at CAS activities have an authentic hat based upon photos like these. 

[Delmonico]

Notice how less than 5% (if that) of people at CAS activities have an authentic hat based upon photos like these. 

Yeah, but remember that is 1864-1865, styles did change as time progressed.  I've always liked this one from Westerville Nebraska out in Custer County Nebraska from 1887:



The rumor I heard was that Brooks and Dunn were playing up at the County Fair in Broken Bow that night.   Either that or he's going up to the Burwell Rodeo.

[Delmonico]

And since this thread is on blue jeans rather than hats, here is the scan from the Time Life Civil War books, Page 12 of Tenting tonight.  1861, members of the 1st Texas Brigade, Ft Quantico Virginia.  

Blue jeans are easy to spot in the old B&W photos when they are cuffed:

[Hangtown Frye]

And what is interesting is that in almost every case, the "blue jeans" are worn as true "overalls", in that they are worn over the normally worn wool trousers in order to protect them.  The idea of wearing such a garment as the one and only pair of trousers worn was a few years in the future.

BTW, what we refer to as "overalls", i.e. "bib-overalls" were either called just that, or "railroad overalls" and came out closer to the turn of the century.  In the era we're mostly discussing here (1860-1900) "overalls" would refer to what we just call "jeans".

Cheers!

Gordon

[FEATHERS]

I just had a look at the history of Levi Strauss,he did'nt get to California till 1853(I thought it was earlier)& while selling his wares he had a bolt of canvas he could'nt sell,he took it a tailor that made the first Levi's for him,sold like hotcakes.He then shipped the now famous blue denim from New York & the story goes from there.Strauss & Brown took out a patent May 20 1873,for the copper rivets,they sold for $1.50 a pair,originally they had rivets on the back pockets,but people complained that the rivets scratched up chairs & saddles so he removed them.Levi's company started to put loops in the jeans in 1922.Feathers.

[Delmonico]

The bib overall date at least to the late 1870's, but have never seen one till after 1900 that had pockets on the bib.  Some of the bibs till into the 1950's had the V in back like frontier pants and the suspenders also hooked in the back.

Also once in a while you will also see a boiler suit, what we call cover-alls today. 

[Rube Burrows]

so for those of us less versed in this.....what makes the cuffed pants seem more like blue jeans and not just like pants that might have been a tad too long that were rolled up some?

[Stu Kettle]

so for those of us less versed in this.....what makes the cuffed pants seem more like blue jeans and not just like pants that might have been a tad too long that were rolled up some?

The denim - its a lighter color on the inside.

[Hangtown Frye]

Also, canvas/denim overalls came in fairly standardized sizes, just like today, but they had to account for the extreme shrinkage of the material.  On the other hand, you usually had your wool trousers hemmed to fit you, even if you bought them pre-made and "off the shelf" just like today as well. (Woolen goods usually don't shrink that much, at least they don't if you treat them right!)  Thus you would very, very seldom see a pair of proper cloth trousers cuffed up under normal circumstances, but cuffing jeans was pretty much the norm until reasonably lately.

Even as late as the early 1960's folks as a matter of course would buy jeans several sizes too big and cuff them up, and roll the cuffs down as the material shrank.  (The good old "Shrink to Fit" Levi's.) Think of the "Greasers" of the 1950's, or even the kids playing Cowboys and Indians.  Same deal was going on in the 1860's and 70's.

Cheers!

Gordon

[Delmonico]

Here is a clearer picture with the cuffed denim pants, from picture 10004 of the Solomon Butcher Collection, dated 1887:





This is not a pair of Levis or any similar jean, this is a pair of bib-overalls, it's just a style the fastens in the back instead of the front.  You can see the waist button if you look close:



There is a handkerchief in the right  rear pocket, the white spot on the same  pocket is a flaw in the negative.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Pointer Brand still makes low back overalls. I have a set.

http://www.pointerbrand.com/DynamicProductCatalog.asp?Category=Overalls&SubCategory=LowBack

Although Levis did not make what we term "blue jeans" until 1873 there was denim drill before. Wool was still however predominant from what I have read.

[Grogan]

An Ad on the side of an old building in a mining town in Nevada that appears to be VERY old.

[Delmonico]

Pointer Brand still makes low back overalls. I have a set.

http://www.pointerbrand.com/DynamicProductCatalog.asp?Category=Overalls&SubCategory=LowBack

Although Levis did not make what we term "blue jeans" until 1873 there was denim drill before. Wool was still however predominant from what I have read.

Thanks, didn't know about them, Roundhouse seems to have went out of business.  They still have the pockets on the front though, that seems to be a 20th century item though.  (Based on what I've seen in pictures.)

[Delmonico]

Thanks, didn't know about them, Roundhouse seems to have went out of business.  They still have the pockets on the front though, that seems to be a 20th century item though.  (Based on what I've seen in pictures.)

Cool.

[The Elderly Kid]

Several years ago I read an article about a pair of 1870's vintage Levi's being found buried in the mud in some old mining town in the west. There were pictures of the garment and the article said that it had sold for big bucks to Levi Strauss & Co., and that Levi Strauss was going to take the pants apart and use them as a pattern to bring out a limited-edition replica of 19th century Levi's. I never heard any more about this project. Did it ever come to fruition? I'd dearly love to have an authentic pair of period Levi's.

[Delmonico]

Several years ago I read an article about a pair of 1870's vintage Levi's being found buried in the mud in some old mining town in the west. There were pictures of the garment and the article said that it had sold for big bucks to Levi Strauss & Co., and that Levi Strauss was going to take the pants apart and use them as a pattern to bring out a limited-edition replica of 19th century Levi's. I never heard any more about this project. Did it ever come to fruition? I'd dearly love to have an authentic pair of period Levi's.

Nope, we've asked about it and the Levi rep knows nothing about it.

As an aside Carhartt which came out in 1889 still has all their original patterns, there has been no luck on getting them to bring any of that out either.

[Bishop Creek]

Several years ago I read an article about a pair of 1870's vintage Levi's being found buried in the mud in some old mining town in the west. There were pictures of the garment and the article said that it had sold for big bucks to Levi Strauss & Co., and that Levi Strauss was going to take the pants apart and use them as a pattern to bring out a limited-edition replica of 19th century Levi's. I never heard any more about this project. Did it ever come to fruition? I'd dearly love to have an authentic pair of period Levi's.

Here is an older article on the jeans. They sold for over $36,000. The pair of jeans are from the 1890s and I don't see any belt loops in the picture of the Levi's:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2474759/100-year-old-Levis-jeans-found-in-goldmine-put-up-for-sale-on-eBay.html

[Rube Burrows]

Very interesting.