It's time for a B-Western rules revision

Sunset Slim · March 04, 2011, 05:16:47 PM

"Because that's what folks expect to see". I'm likely paraphrasing just a bit but that's essentially what I was told at Mule Camp 2004 when I asked why only buscadero rigs were allowed for the B-Western category.

Mule Camp 2004 was the first time that SASS officially sponsored the B-Western category. When I first became aware that SASS was going to have a B-western category and that Mule Camp 2004 would be the first official competition, I knew I had to be there for it. I began to plan and assemble my outfit. Hat, boots, spurs, clothes and the centerpiece...my belt and holster rig. For that I went to Jim Lockwood of Legends in Leather who is generally regarded as the foremost authority in B-western gun leather. After much collaboration, we decided to try to incorporate some detail from each of the B-western decades in tribute to those legends of yore and the result was stunning. A floral carved silver mounted masterpiece that absolutely reeked of B-Western...but was not legal for SASS B-Western competition. I'll admit that I started putting my outfit together before the rules were published but out of necessity and consideration for the various makers' turnaround times. Well, needless to say, I wasn't allowed to compete in B-Western at that inaugural event but rules are rules and I figured SASS would come around. One does, after all, have to start somewhere.

Nearly seven years later the rules for the B-Western category remain unchanged. Under the current rules Bronco Billy Anderson, possibly the father of the B-Western and veteran of over 400 films would not be allowed to compete in the SASS B-Western category. Nor would Ken Maynard, Hoot Gibson or Tom Mix. Roy Rogers wore rigs that allowed the pistol butt to ride above the top edge of the belt so guess what? Yup...even Roy Rogers would not be able to compete in SASS B-Western. C'mon folks. It's past time for a B-Western category revision. The buscadero rig played a very small part in the history of the B-Western genre and that fact ought to be recognized by allowing fancy mexican loop rigs and other types of gun leather that appeared throughout the B-Western heyday.

On a similar vein, I don't ever recall seeing Hoppy banging away at the bad guys with a short stroked '73 or The Cisco Kid thwarting a bank robbery with a race ready '97. '92s and SxSs should be the mandated long guns for the B-Western category simply because that's what folks expect to see.

Camille Eonich · March 06, 2011, 02:13:30 PM

If you're seeing people shooting '73s in B-Western then you need to make the RO aware of it because they aren't allowed.

QuoteRifles: Any SASS–legal rifle of 1880 or later design or a replica thereof (i.e. Burgess,
Lightning Rifle, 1892, 1894 Winchester or Marlin).

If the RO won't take care of the problem then talk to the match director. If they don't fix it and they are a SASS affiliated club then contact SASS.

If you really want a rule change the talk to other B Western shooters and see what they think about the idea. Get a petition together and get it to your TGs before the next TG meeting at EoT. That's where the rule changes start at. You might try getting some pictures of the rigs of the people that you mentioned and make your point in that manner. When you propose the rule change though it would be best if you go ahead and make a complete proposal meaning and make sure that you know the current rules as well so that you know exactly what you are asking for.

Here's the leather requirement for B-Western

QuoteLeather: Buscadero holster rigs or drop holster rigs. (All of the revolver(s) must be carried
below the top of the gun belt.) All belt and holster rigs must be embellished (fancy
stitching, conchos, spots, or tooling). All holsters must be of the "Double Strong-Side"
type. No crossdraw, shoulder rigs, or butt forward configurations allowed.

So chances are they if you have traditional leather all you need to do is add a drop to your holsters and you can continue to use the belt that you have. Depending on how they are made your current holsters may be able to be modified to meet the current rules so that you can shoot the category while attempting to have the rules changed.

Good luck!

Sunset Slim · March 10, 2011, 06:55:05 PM

Thanks Camille. I know, I know. Just got carried away a bit with the '73 thing but the point of the post was supposed to be that the rules are not B-Western rules. I posted this to the SASS wire also and geez you'd of thought I was advocating closing down the Alamo. The thread got hijacked by some fuedin' fightin' name callin' folks and the thread was closed down by one of the moderators. There was a few good points made before it was shut down though and I'll try and touch on them here where folks seem to be able to show a bit more control. Courtesy too.

First, Just to clear up a couple of things that I didn't make clear enough. Mule Camp 2004 was the first of several SASS sponsored matches where B-Western was allowed as a 'non-official' category...sort of as a test I guess to see how well it went over before BW was approved as an official category in '06. Don't recall anyone asking for input as to rules or anything else pertaining to BW as presented there. At least I wasn't approached. Don't know about the rest of the matches, wasn't there. Didn't intend for folks to think I was whining about the fact that my rig is not legal. Only mentioned that to lend credence to the fact that it was built by, and after much collaboration with, a man who is considered by most folks in the know as the formost authority on B-Western gunleather. By SASS standards we got it wrong thats all. I just think that the part stating that the gun butt needs to ride below the top of the belt is downright silly because...well, because that just isn't the way it was in real B-Westerns. I also said that '92s and SxSs should be the required long guns because thats the way it was.

There were folks who said shut up. If you don't like the rules, shoot another category or go somewhere else to shoot. To those I would say that if our forefathers had exhibited such an attitude we may not have to worry about BW or any other category for that matter as we may not have the guns to shoot them! Many BW shooters said that Marlins have been allowed from the get go and it just wouldn't be right to make all those folks go out and buy 92s to be legal. That's right...it wouldn't. One fellow said Marlins were used on the Cisco Kid episodes so I went and looked at several. Saw lots of 92s but no Marlins. Probably didn't look at the right episode. A whole lot of cowboys, including a few high profile ones just said "the rules are fine". But one fella said "you know what Slim, you may be on to something here. The rules are fine for a shooting category and a pretty spiffy one at that. It just ain't B-Western. Maybe it should be called the 'Fancy' category or 'Western Rhapsody' or whatever. Well DANG! Maybe that is all that's wrong with it It's a pretty good category to shoot in...fun and all the rest...it just ain't B-Western. Anyhow...it's just my opinion.

Old Doc · March 22, 2011, 07:58:08 AM

When you get right down to it, how many cowboys owned a rifle, a shotgun and TWO pistols ?

maldito gringo · March 22, 2011, 08:40:24 AM

The closest you'll get to a B western short of a time machine.

Sunset Slim · March 27, 2011, 12:16:51 AM

Well Doc, you got a point there. Most real cowboys could only afford one pistol. Most had a rifle, at least even if they didn't own a pistol and a shotgun was a luxury, but we're talking BW here and most carried two pistols. Besides...we need ten pistol rounds for most CAS stages and you can't get that out of one pistol...er..well...there was the Walsh Navy but Gene, a one gun guy, never carried one. Gringo, your reference to a time machine reminds me of a movie...Rustlers Rhapsody. An absolutly wonderful western comedy spoofing B-Westerns. A great watch.

Old Doc · March 27, 2011, 06:51:34 AM

Quote from: Sunset Slim on March 27, 2011, 12:16:51 AM
Well Doc, you got a point there. Most real cowboys could only afford one pistol. Most had a rifle, at least even if they didn't own a pistol and a shotgun was a luxury, but we're talking BW here and most carried two pistols. Besides...we need ten pistol rounds for most CAS stages and you can't get that out of one pistol...er..well...there was the Walsh Navy but Gene, a one gun guy, never carried one. Gringo, your reference to a time machine reminds me of a movie...Rustlers Rhapsody. An absolutly wonderful western comedy spoofing B-Westerns. A great watch.

Yeah, but looking at it form another perspective, how many shotguns do you see in B westerns. I've always thought whoever came up with this shotgun, rifle and two pistols business, owned a gun distributorship. I was at a gun show yesterday and someone had a set Of the SASS Ruger Vaqueros, which they only sell in pairs. Now I wouldn't mind having one of those but I don't need TWO of them. From a sales standpoint, I'll bet Ruger will think twice before putting out another gun that has to be sold in pairs.

royal barnes · March 27, 2011, 06:43:26 PM

Slim,
I suspect the people who came up with the B Western requirements are the same ones who came up with Classic Cowboy. The requirements for both are what people see in their fantasies. I am sorry that you spent a lot of money on what you thought would be a perfect B Western rig only to find out that it wasn't. Might have been better to wait.

People think of Roy, Hoppy, Buck Jones, Johnny Mack Brown and Tom Mix when they think B Western. All of them wore Buscaderos. I know you mentioned Tom Mix but he did, in fact, wear drop loop holsters even as far back as the 1905 Seth Bullock photo. Even the "Duke" started out with a Buscadero.

Follow Camille's advice if you want to try for a rules change. I've seen it argued at TG meetings for changes to Classic Cowboy with nothing done except some clarifications. I don't remember anyone ever bringing up any changes to B Western. I won't say the requirements are set in stone but I don't really hold out much hope for you. Sorry.

Slim,
The same people who came up with B Western requirements also came up with those for Classic Cowboy.

Slim,
The same people who came up with the Classic Cowboy requirements also came up with those for B Western. It is what the masses believe real cowboys and B Westerners wore and carried and it created 2 new costume based categories to the game . When the requirements for Classic were announced I didn't have to buy anything. I had been dressing that way for years in CAS. But, if I hadn't I would have waited to see what the requirements would be before making any purchases.

We know it wasn't always the norm but even your movie example's hero wears a fancy Buscadero rig and very fancy outfits. A lot of B Western heroes wore fancy clothes and Buscadero rigs. Some didn't. Roy, Buck Jones, Johnny Mack Brown, Hoppy, Tom Mix all did. Yes, Tom Mix. I have never seen a pic of him wearing anything else including the 1905 Seth Bullock Wild West Show photo. The butt of the gun may, or not, be above the belt but it is a drop loop holster.

Follow Camille's suggestions if you really feel strongly about the change. I am sorry you had an expensive holster rig made to shoot in the category only to find it was not legal. Sometimes waiting can be good.

P.S. Based on the requirements for Classic Cowboy even the "Duke" wouldn't qualify. Of course, in his early B movies, he wore fancy clothes and a Buscadero rig so he would certainly fit in there.

Slim,