Firing a gun on horseback

[Doug.38PR]

I've always been curious, suppose you're riding through the woods (or plains or mountains depending on what state you live in) and you come across something that prompts you to pull your sidearm or longarm and fire (rattlesnake, hostile poacher/trespasser, hunting, etc. etc).   How do you train your horse not buck you or take off running at the sound of a gun going off?   
Do reenactors do it when riding Cavalry in battle reenactments?

[Drydock]

Cavalry mounts were trained to not react to gunfire.  Its as simple as standing next to a corral and firing blanks into the air at irregular times.  I've no doubt this was done with civilian mounts as well.  Though a good experienced rider can maintain control of a surprised horse  should need be.

[S. Quentin Quale, Esq.]

We do some Cowboy Mounted Shooting and participate at the National Cavalry Competition which includes a Mounted Pistol Course.

There are also rifle classes in the CMS world (the revolving rifle is popular there as is the Marlin lever action).

The Army "gun broke" its horses by feeding near the pistol/rifle ranges and by mixing quiet, well broke shooting horses with the greenies.  We used the "mixing" method with ours with great success.  Most horses can be trained to at least "tollerate" gunfire; my mare falls into this category.  With others you could shoot a cannon off their back and it wouldn't matter.  But there are few that will not tollerate the gunfire and these must be culled from the program and used for other things.

The U.S. Cavalry, through most of its history, was really a force of dragoons or mounted rifles.  There were few instances of "fighting on horseback."  More commonly the horse was the means of arriving at or leaving from a fight.  Indeed, as the 19th Century progressed and automatic and rapid fire weapons began to proliferate the man on horseback became an ever bigger target.

I'm not really a "re-enactor" but have observed a few mounted "battles."  Yes, lots of gunfire.     Care must still be taken as a black powder blank is a dangerous thing.

SQQ

[Major 2]

30+ years a mounted reenactor...not sure I could say it any better than echo  S. Quentin Quale...


Some horses will handle the the gunfire ...others will not
I trained several over the years, I only had one that would NOT be trained for gun fire and never was .

[Doug.38PR]

while you are firing, hearing damage doesn't become a problem to the horses?  My dog can't stand it when I'm shooting with him outside.   Fusses at me everytime I raise a rifle or pistol.   To the point where I have to put him in the house

[cpt dan blodgett]

Ear plugs for horses work.  Take the right sized nerf balls  hook them together with about a foot of shoe lace or other cord and shove one in each ear.  Or connect a loop to each one separately.

[PJ Hardtack]

I have a fond memory of starting the Pacific National Exhibition parade in the downtown core of Vancouver, BC with a ML cannon .....

At the last moment, they told us that they wanted a female politician to touch off the gun. We stoked it up with a double charge and most of the morning edition of the paper as wadding.
Ahead of us by about 35 yds were the mounted squads of the City of Seattle and Vancouver PD. We were sure that we about to start the last/first stampede in the Vancouver financial district.
As expected, there was a horrendous roar, the echo accentuated by the steel and glass canyons of the towering buildings. The lady politician wetted herself, I'm sure, and hardly a horse did more than a quick reflexive jump. We were greatly disappointed.
As we were going around stomping out the  burning embers, I spoke to one of the SPD and he said that their horses were 'riot trained', used to firecrackers and smoke bombs going off around and under them.

[S. Quentin Quale, Esq.]

Some folks use ear plugs and some don't.  My mare is very sensitive about her ears.  I'd have to put her out, on the ground, to put in ear plugs.  Then she'd still likely freak out when she came to.  I've tried multiple types ("nerf plastic" cones, women's nylons stuffed with other nylons, etc.).  Nothing has really worked so we don't use anything.

At last year's NCC at Old Ft. Concho in San Angelo the Fort's Buffalo Soldiers were going to fire their canon for the formal parade on Saturday a.m.  Many horses had not really heard cannon fire before, so each unit CO did what they thought they needed to do to keep the horses quiet.  My wife and I were riding with the Staff and both our horses had been "anxious" the whole time we'd been there.  I had even scratched from the Mounted Pistol due to her really unreliable (and very unusual) behavior.  She had settled enough for me to do the Mounted Saber course on Friday p.m., but was still a bit "spooky."  It was with some trepidation that we lined up for colors.  The cannon fired twice and while my mare put her ears up and looked at it that was all.  But then the real threat appeard:  the Piper.   

When the U.S. colors were raised the band played the National Anthem.  Then, in honor of our participants from Britain and Australia, the Piper played "God Save the Queen."  My mare STARED at him the whole time and was ready to go!!!!!!  She didn't do anything, but sitting on her was like sitting on a coiled spring.  As soon as he was done she completely relaxed.  I guess she just doesn't like the pipes!   

SQQ

[Major 2]

It's really strange and sometimes funny (sometimes not) what the Beasties will consider a bugger hunt !

China my Morgan ( may she rest in Peace ) was rock steady under gun even cannon fire..I used her in many films
she was so reliable......BUT we did a Parade once and they ( parade committee ) struck us near the end....

The town must have been proud of the new Garbage Truck they just got all shiny and polished with the arms that reach out
and grip the special can home owners must have and dumps it automatically 

Well old reliable musta though it was an Automatic Horse eating machine.... BLOWUP does not quite cover that Mr Toad's Wild Ride.....
 

[Dalton Masterson]

I started off my Arabian with a kids cap gun, then moved up to my single shot .410 and a 51 Navy .44. It helped that we shot in his pasture, and often he would come down to watch what we were doing. I never had any problem with him and live fire, shooting birds and at squirrels on trail rides after school.

The only thing that really seemed to bother him was turning when at a run (think drag race, not road race), stopping too quick (locked his legs and bounced to a stop), and deer. He hated deer. Darn near stomped one to death after getting it hung up in the fence. After that, I had to get him going the other way before he got to them.
DM

[PJ Hardtack]

Like the texters say - ROFLMAO !!!  The horsey stories made my day.

I've often wondered what effect the Pipes would have on horses not used to them. The Brits used to have mounted Pipe Bands and I believe they still exist in the Indian Army, which simply carried on with British Army tradition after the Partition in 1948, including the Sunset Ceremony which ends with a lone Piper on the parapet of the Red Fort.

Ah, the Pipes - love 'em or hate 'em! I do know this from 1o years Regular Army and two in a Reserve Highland Regiment - if you can't march to the Pipes, you simply cannot march, period. If you can, then you can march through the gates of hell ......

[cpt dan blodgett]

I started off my Arabian with a kids cap gun, then moved up to my single shot .410 and a 51 Navy .44. It helped that we shot in his pasture, and often he would come down to watch what we were doing. I never had any problem with him and live fire, shooting birds and at squirrels on trail rides after school.

The only thing that really seemed to bother him was turning when at a run (think drag race, not road race), stopping too quick (locked his legs and bounced to a stop), and deer. He hated deer. Darn near stomped one to death after getting it hung up in the fence. After that, I had to get him going the other way before he got to them.
DM

At a dead run My Arab could jump sidways across a road for a butterfly.  I always continued straight on inertia or something.

[Dalton Masterson]

I did that whole "he turned I didnt" thing riding bareback with him once. I had no bridle or halter, no saddle no nothin. Just jumped on and leg cued him and off we went. We were doing good and had a nice gallop going when he turned. I didnt..... It took awhile for that part of his mane to grow back though...
DM

[Duke York]

Shot a lot of boar from horseback with the .45 Auto, but mainly used my 1958 Ruger Flattop .44 Mag with Keith bullets.

Single Action's are a lot safer on a galloping horse.

I always shot to the side of the hoss.

Friend shot his S&W #10 over his horse's head chasing a pig. When he woke up, his mount was gone, the pig had left the county and his sixgun barrel was buried in the mud almost up to the frame.

Duke York
SASS 15978

[S. Quentin Quale, Esq.]

Here is the FM on the M1911 from 1940:  http://www.scribd.com/doc/31247192/FM-23-35-Automatic-Pistol-Caliber-45-M1911-and-M1911A1-1940

The site loads a bit slowly so be patient.  I've found other sites with the manual in PDF or other form but can't locate them right now.   

A couple of years ago I bought one of the Colt M1911 "Model of 1918" pistols.  That came with a reproduction of the orginal M1911 Manual which included "course of fire" instruction.

I concur that the single action pistol is safer on horseback.  A "reflexive squeeze" will not result in embarassment or worse.  There was some resistance early on to the introcution of the M1911 in the Cavalry; that may have been one of the reasons.

There's more than one documented incident over the years of a rider shooting his own horse by trying to fire "between the ears." 

Even the best trained horse can have a "Monday."  The best defense against that is good training, situational awareness, and a "deep seat."   

G.

[PJ Hardtack]

You guys ever run across the tale told by General G.A. Custer about shooting his own horse in the back of the head? Apparently, he was bored, so he decided to go out alone and shoot a buff for something to do .....
Everything was going well until the fatal shot which dropped his galloping horse and pitched him into the prairie. He was unhurt and smart enough to stay with the downed horse until such time as he was missed and a party dispatched to find him.

[Dalton Masterson]

I seem to recall that happened around Ft. Hays somewhere. IF I recall it correctly anyway.
DM

[Major 2]

Yes  Sir, I read the account as well

[Shotgun Franklin]

tale told by General G.A. Custer about shooting his own horse in the back of the head?

I've read that, while he was an excellent shot with a rifle, he was considered a very poor shot with a revolver. I understand that he killed at least 2 horses during his career.

[Hangtown Frye]

It's interesting that the various manuals are pretty darned consistent in what they teach you to do in regards to training a horse to gunfire.  I have a PDF of a book written in 1607 (by Gervaise Markham, if you're interested) which gives pretty much the same instructions as the 1940 manual does.  Basically start slow and easy, getting the horse used to first the firearms, then the noise of it operating, then finally the gunfire.  What is interesting (and Roger can back me up on this I'm sure) is that with many horses it's not so much the noise they dislike, but the "smoke monster" that comes with black powder loads.  When this "thing" erupts next to them and starts drifting their way... well, it takes them some getting used to, to say the least.  Starting with the priming in a flintlock is a good way to get them sacked out this way, without the noise factor entering in to it.  Using caps in a caplock revolver gets the noise factor out of the way, without the smoke monster.  But maybe I'm over analyzing it here.

One of the methods that I've seen used and liked a lot was with the CMSA guys, who start a group clinic with everyone riding in a "herd" in the same direction in a big arena.  They let the horses get used to each other and you make sure that you have a percentage of old hands in the mix who won't be spooked by the noise.  Then someone steps to the inside of the circle and fires off a few blanks, letting folks get their horses used to it.  This goes on for a few cylinders full, then pistols are handed off to the folks on gun-trained horses to fire off slowly, on command.  By the end of the session, everyone has fired off their mount, and while that doesn't necessarily make for a "gun trained" animal, it certainly goes a long ways in getting them used to it all.  Still takes some work, but you've got a good start going on.

BTW, I have one horse who loves it when I smack things with a lance, but absolutely HATES my pistols.  My other horse absolutely HATES the lance work, but has no issues at all with shooting.  Weird...

Cheers!

Gordon