44-40 long range bullet for accuracy pt II

[w44wcf]

Pards,
I thought I would add a bit of historic information on the original long range 44 levergun bullet in a new thread since the original was getting a bit long.

The bullet I am referencing is the one designed for the .44 Henry Rim Fire cartridge back in 1860.  Long range accuracy was one of the goals.  Testing by the Swiss Commission in 1866 confirmed the long range accuracy of the cartridge.

Below is a copy of the target made at 300 paces by the Commission.  30 shots were fired.  With the exception of 2 shots, all are within a 12" x 12" area. Almost 1/2 of the bullets impacted within a 6" area. Large squares = 6"



Notice how the nose profile of of the .44 Henry Bullet was carried over to the .44-40 bullet 13 years later. By that time Winchester claimed that the '73 was accurate and effective to 500-600 yards.



 
w44wcf

   

[Montana Slim]

Thought I'd mention another factor in accuracy....A bullet which starts out supersonic and downrange drops below the speed of sound. That region is referred to as the "transonic" range. Therefore to avoid this effect for maximum accuracy, the bullet should reach the intended target at a distance that the bullet has not slowed to below the speed of sound...or conversely, the bullet should start out just below the speed of sound (muzzle velocity less than approximately 1100 fps...and therefore avoid passing though this transonic phase. Note that a tightly packed 44-40 cartridge with 3F powder, fired from a rifle, should have a MV around 1300 fps. Down range, in a fairly short distance, the bullet will slow to below the speed of sound and be subject to this disturance which can open up a group.

I observed and noted this during some 9mm ammunition testing a few years ago...eventually the experts agreed this was a contributing effect to the erratic performance they had documented.

Regards,
Slim

[w44wcf]

Slim,
True, but well balanced bullets are affected very little if at all going from supersonic to subsonic. In my experience the 427098 44-40 bullet is pretty much unaffected based on some accuracy testing I did recently at 200 yards.  Groups were only about double  those fired at 100 yards.

w44wcf

[Montana Slim]

To make a fair evaluation comparing groups at 100 & 200 yds....it would be worth noting:

1) Muzzle velocity (MV).
2) Computed (or measured) velocity at 100 yds, along with dispersion at the same yardage (D100).
3) Dispersion of same load at 200 yds (D200).

If the MV is supersonic, and is subsonic at 100yds....it has passed through the transonic region and the effect has already taken place. Therefore, I would not expect any additional effect at 200 yds (Roughly 2xD100 = D200).

Another example would be that the round starts supersonic and is still supersonic at 50 yds. Resulting dispersion is D50.
The bullet slows and becomes subsonic between 50 and 100 yds....the resulting dispersion is D100.
The effect could be that D100 > 2xD50.

Those 9mm bullets i mention are made on pretty good machinery, lead swaged true and pressed into copper jackets at pretty good pressure. I'm pretty sure they're as good as, if not more accurately made than cast/sized slugs.

Just trying to elaborate further. One of my guiding principles is to educate & entertain.
Regards,
Slim

[Bryan Austin]

Funny how some folks tend to "re-invent" things simply because the original information is purposefully overlooked because it's "old" or because the inventor is in denial. However, some "old things" can be improved simply due to some overlooked or missed information. Thanks for your efforts w44wcf. I am looking forward to shooting the new design of the proven 427098!

Never could figure out why my Marlin and those Henry's and Winchester 66 and 73's had one of those ladder sights for shooting long distances since its only a "100 yard cartridge".

[john boy]

Never could figure out why my Marlin and those Henry's and Winchester 66 and 73's had one of those ladder sights for shooting long distances since its only a "100 yard cartridge". 

[Fox Creek Kid]

...Never could figure out why my Marlin and those Henry's and Winchester 66 and 73's had one of those ladder sights for shooting long distances since its only a "100 yard cartridge".

Advertising then as now was usually 90% BS. That's why. 

[Springfield Slim]

The same reason my truck has a speedo that goes to 150, when no way in heck it can do that sort of speed? I think they call it marketing. 

[w44wcf]

Those of us that have had the fortune of shooting our 44-40 leverguns at extended distances know that the long range sights are not there for ornamentation. Make no mistake, they really are functional. I have fired my .44-40 out to 500 meters and based on what I witnessed, I definitely would not want anyone shooting at me at that distance with my 44-40 as all the shots would have hit a man sized target.
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,36799.0.html

Slim,
Good points. The .44-40 bullet leaving the muzzle at 1,300 f.p.s. using b.p. goes subsonic around 70 yards. However groups at 100 yards with the 427098 are double what they are at 50 yards with both being fired in good conditions. That would indicate that the bullet profile and balance are pretty much unaffected going through the transonic region.  The same thing is definitely not true with bullets being tail heavy as in .30 caliber match bullets. They definitely are affected.

Jack,
Thank you for the kind words.

w44wcf

[Henry4440]

Slim,
Good points. The .44-40 bullet leaving the muzzle at 1,300 f.p.s. using b.p. goes subsonic around 70 yards. However groups at 100 yards with the 427098 are double what they are at 50 yards with both being fired in good conditions. That would indicate that the bullet profile and balance are pretty much unaffected going through the transonic region.  The same thing is definitely not true with bullets being tail heavy as in .30 caliber match bullets. They definitely are affected.

Jack,
Thank you for the kind words.

w44wcf

[Fox Creek Kid]

Experts say that a bullet needs a minimum of approx. 350 - 375 fps to be terminal.

[Montana Slim]

Experts say that a bullet needs a minimum of approx. 350 - 375 fps to be terminal.

I sort-of agree with that line of thought...of course it matters greatly the diamter & weight of the projectile...and what part of you it stikes.

Imagine a CW cannonball hitting you....or even a puny 750 grain .50 caliber slug at a measly 350fps, ouch!.

Slim

[Fairshake]

A 205 gr bullet going 350 FPS and striking the eye would be deadly I think. I don't know of any breathing volunteers.