My vinegaroon is almost ready - ? on finish over it?

[bedbugbilly]

Almost a month ago, I "cooked" up a quart of "vinegaroon" and it's been sitting on the back of my bench.  While I was finishing up another holster today, I looked at the bottle and decided to try some on a scrap of leather to see if it was "ripe" yet.  I have to say, I am REALLY impressed with this stuff.  I got a nice black on my sample and was happy with the results.  I'm planning on using it on a holster I've got plans to make next week.  I've got a couple of questions though.

1.  What do some of you use on top of leather dyed this way?  I was thining olive oil and then maybe some paste wax.  I like the semi-sheen look that paste wax gives but am open to trying other things as well.

2.  The vinegar odor - I flushed my sample for quite a while in clean, warm water.  My wife was even impressed with the dye job on the sample but mentioned the "vinegar" odor.  Does this go away in time or if flushed well, dried and other oils, sealers, whatever on top of it help with the odor?  I'd hate to bring it in to the house and then have the better half complain that she is smelling string-bean pickles.   

Thanks for advice!   

[marine-mp]

Triple B,
   1)  I have a c/c holster that I "rooned" this aternoon and later, on the morrow, I will put a light coat of NFO on it.  After it dries, I will stitch it up and finish the edges as per Hidepounders method. I'll then put 2 to 3 light coats of Resolene/Water (50/50) let dry and put a finish of Kiwi Natural on it and buff.
   2)  I can attest to Mama's dissention with the olfactory factor!!!!!  Although I don't find it offensive, she does!!!!!  The holsters will loose the vinegar smell in time.  Its no different with dye, holsters always have a lingering "dye" smell that disappears w/time.  However, on the bright side, when I'm hugry, I smell a holster an immediately have to have some fish and chips to go w/that vinegar!!!!!!!   Semper-fi    Mike

[ChuckBurrows]

To get rid of the odor:
1) Did you follow up with a baking soda wash - this helps
2) Once your mix has all the rion dissolved it can take leave the lid open a day or two to let if off gas
3) Hang the item up in front of a fan - acetic acid (what causes the vinegar odor) is highly volatile and will off gas faster with air movement.

For a finish - condition well with your favorite oil of choice and then apply any top coat you wish - most period holsters were simply oil finished or used dubbin, a mix of tallow or lard, saddle or olive oil, and beeswax in varying amounts....but you can use Tan Kote, Bag Kote, etc, as a finish top coat......

[bedbugbilly]

Marine MP - yea, I get a hankering for fish and chips as well when I smell it.  I'm used to the regular dye, wax, oil smells but the vinegar is a new one . . . but the results far outweigh that minor problem. 

Chuck - thanks for your input.  I've used NFO for years and we always used it on the farm on leather goods, tack, etc.  For some reason, I've taken a liking to Virgin Olive Oil.  I've been using a tinted paste wax as a top coat and have had good results with it.  Now that I have seen how well the vinegaroon works, when I get back out here in AZ for the winter next October, I'll start a bigger batch that will last me all winter.  When I used to make a lot of shooting bags, possible bags, etc., I experimented with a lot of different "sealers" that would have been period appropriate.  I'll probably start experimenting with that again next fall and see what I can concoct utilizing beeswax and tallow if I can locate some in smaller quantities (tallow that is). 

In regards to the baking soda "wash" to neutralize - I didn't on the sample that I dyed.  I just flushed it for quite a while in fresh running water.  At that point, I was more curious as to how my "concoction" was going to work and if it was ready.  When I do the holster, I'll be sure to use the soda wash on it.  I'll also leave the holster outside I guess under the patio roof and let it "air" for a few days.  I checked my sample this morning and it isn't quite as strong as it was.  Thanks all for the input - greatly appreciated!   

[marine-mp]

TripleB,
    One thing that I have noticed, as I believe TenWolves has pointed out before, is that a vinegarooned piece seems to have taken on a water-resistant character there-by making the "finish" on the product less of a major decision.  Semper-fi  MIke

[bedbugbilly]

M MP - thanks for that little "tid bit".  I used a scrap that I had tried some different stamps on so it had those as well as smooth surfaces . . . like I said earlier . . . I was impressed.  The finish from just the vinegaroon was really nice and I was wondering as I looked at it after it dried, if it really needed anything additional.  I've tried a number of different black dyes - I had an order a couple of moths ago for a holster for a small semi-auto sig and it just about drove me nuts.  I used the eco-flo black and at first appearance, it looked great . . . but . . . to me, it was more of a "surface" finish . . . the customer was happy and I made a matching belt for her but I wouldn't use it again after seeing what the finish looks like from vinegaroon.  I know that the odor may be an issue at times, but if it's flushed good with neutralizer and aired for awhile, I think the finished results are well worth the effort.  Thanks again for your help . . . hope you cc holster turns out great!   

[Skeeter Lewis]

Does vinegaroon blacken thread too? I've just 'rooned a belt. It came out fine but the thread is light brown. Is that the best it gets or would I have to use some other agent for the thread?

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

      Skeeter, did you wax your thread well, I have never had a problem with my thread turning color on me, and I only dye when my leather piece is done with the exception of burnishing and final finishing, but have never had my thread change color, but then I wax my thread real well before sewing. As you can see in the picture below,on the black holster the thread is white.

    tEN wOLVES

[Dalton Masterson]

Ditto on the thread staying white. I am just working on a 1911 pancake that I used vinegaroon on, and the thread is very white still. It is linen, with beeswax/pine mix wax on it.
DM

[Skeeter Lewis]

Thanks 10W and Dalton. That's a little worrying. I used beeswax only.....

It so happens that on this belt I want black thread. Maybe black shoe polish is the way to go to color the thread.

But if I want the thread to stay white on another project.....hmm...I'll have to experiment.

[ChuckBurrows]

Skeeter generally no since vinegar black works via a chemical reaction with the iron and the tannins. To get colored thread (linen or hemp) I cut off a length and dye it in regular leather dye - let dry and then pull it through a clean cloth a few times before waxing........

[Skeeter Lewis]

Thanks, Chuck!

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

 What Chuck said, I learned from him, I keep a marjoram container with a little black spirit dye in it, when ever I need black thread it only takes a minute to make some, but let it dry completely and wipe it until you stop getting rub off, before you wax your thread, works great. I assume you are still using Cambell Bosworth linen thread ?

       tEN wOLVES  

[Skeeter Lewis]

Yes, I'm still using Cambell Bosworth. Thanks for the tip.....

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Yes, I'm still using Cambell Bosworth. Thanks for the tip.....

   You'll be good to go Skeet, I use a pine pitch and bees wax blend, but when it's cold like this, I use a hair dryer my wife gave me to warm the blend up a little, this helps to get it on the thread much better, in the summer months it's fine by itself.

    tEN wOLVES 

[ChuckBurrows]

I do it the old fashioned way - I just stick the chunk of wax/pitch in my arm pit and let it warm up while getting set up or whenever it gets stiff....
The old German saddler I apprenticed with did that and I've carried on the tradition - plus it makes my pits smell good! 

[Skeeter Lewis]

Thanks, Chuck and 10W. The fact is that I was using a rosin-and-beeswax mixture about a year ago but it never went on smoothly. There would be darker patches intermittently along the thread. So I went back to plain beeswax. Maybe heating it will help. I'll try. Good tip....
Skeet

[ChuckBurrows]

Skeeter - after "waxing" your thread with the rosin/wax mix it can also help to rub the wax in by taking a piece of leather or brwon paper bag and burnishing the thread.

[marine-mp]

I do it the old fashioned way - I just stick the chunk of wax/pitch in my arm pit and let it warm up while getting set up or whenever it gets stiff....
The old German saddler I apprenticed with did that and I've carried on the tradition - plus it makes my pits smell good! 

Now that 'jus wrong....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cliff Fendley]

While we're on the subject where is the best source for pine pitch.