Confederate Flag! Right or Wrong?

[Badlands Walker]

Howdy y'all.  I got me a question I'd like to ask & I would like y'all to be straight forward & honest without worryin' about my feelin's.  First of all, I don't get my feelin's hurt that easy anyway, but just in case, lol.  Now, I don't want this to become a political thing & I sincerely hope it doesn't take that route, but...

Ever since I was a youngin', I have been a rebel & an outlaw.  Not a criminal type or nothin', but just cain't seem to conform to rules & that type thing.  Anywho, I have always flown a Confederate Flag along with our very own American Flag.  I have a confederate flag license plate on the front of my 68' F-250 with the word Rebel on it.  I wear skull caps (you bretherin bikers know what I mean) with the confederate flag & even have some confederate flag bandanas.  I'm a southern boy to the bone & I love Charlie Daniels, The Outlaws, ZZ Top and SRV.  My favorite sayin' is: "The South's Gonna Do it Again"!  Hell, I even got a confederate flag tatoo on...  better not say, there is ladies & children present!

IMHO, the Confederate Flag is a great part of our American Heritage & History!  Now, here is where this is all leadin'.  I have had a few friends lately & some recent visitors at my home, complain about my Confederate Flags & say they are truly offended by that.  I must be missin' something here, cuz I don't get it.  They say that this flag is no longer correct in our society & should be forever banned!  That brought a tear to my eyes!  Could I please get some sincere views & opinions on this, cuz I just don't see all the fuss about this.  It's an American Flag, just like our Stars & Stripes!

[tarheel mac]

I get so angry about this...Several years ago, I was visting some friends on the coast of NC, where I grew up, and had my children along with me.  We went and splashed around in the ocean for a while and were walking back.  Someone had hung a Confederate flag, and my son (then about 9 or 10) booed! 

I was born and grew up here in the South, my son's reaction was based on the popular PC belief about how the Confederacy should hang its head in shame, (because of course, of the slavery issue.)

Okay foks here are a few facts about the whole slavery issue.  If you majored in PC in college, you might want to stop reading right now..

Slavery was an historical fact of life in the mid 19th century.  Not a pleasant fact, but a fact nonetheless. So were coal mines in which 8-12 year old kids pulled carts for 12 hours, factories in which simliarly aged children worked around machinery, machinery without any form of protection or guards on it too, by the way.)  and we can't do anything about it 150 years later.  We can feel moderatly guility that they went through this, and hope they're descendents have had a better life since,, but that is it.  Pulling down every Confederate Flag in the country or a national "I'm sorry for all the brutal things my ancestors did" day will not change one thing....

10% of the Southerners owned 90% of the slaves, and at least 40% of the Southerners owned no slaves whatsoever.  Why?  Real simple, slaves were very expensive, so much so, that unless you were relatively well off to begin with, merely purchasing a slave would cripple you financially.  Most people could no more afford a slave back then than can afford a Lear Jet now...

Over 80% of the Confederate ARmy did not own any slaves.  Again you ask why? and Again I say, very simple.  You ever heard the saying "Rich man's war, poor man's fight"?  The War Between the States was a classic example of that saying...It was a war fought by farmers, cobblers, blacksmith apprenctices and so forth...not by rich men, for the most part...Nathan Bedford Forest being one exception, but Lee had "more debts than he knew what to do with", Jackson was a school-teacher (how many rich school teachers do you know?)

Oh, and Lee had slaves when he was married, as did a man named U.S. Grant, but Lee freed his slaves before the war began, Grant did not do so until the Constiituion made slavery illegal. (Lee was also opposed to slavery on moral grounds, he didn't think it right)

The War would not have been fought without the issue of slavery, but it was not the cause of the war merely the fuse.The match that lit that fuse was the election of Lincoln to the Presidency, but the power keg itself, the root cause was the fact that the United States, in 1860/1861 was no such thing, but in reality, two seperarte nations, sharing a single govenment. 

The Confederate flag is a symbol of the sacrifice and bravery of one side in that war, and I for one, am still proud to be a Southerner, and I am still proud of the Confederate flag.

[Sergeant Smokepole]

Screw the politically correct.

The Confederate Battle Flag is about Heritage, not hate. This is probably something these whining weasels know nothing about.

[Silver Creek Slim]

You have the right to fly a Confederate flag as much as the guy down the street has a right to fly a Norwegian, German, Russian, Scottish, Canadian, or Brazilian flag.

Slim

[Book Miser]

I'll show the stars and bars where and when it pleases me...

[Badlands Walker]

Now here's a pard from my own heart!  I like a man who sticks to his beliefs!  Amen pard!

[Badlands Walker]

Sorry there Marshal H. that I placed this thread in the wrong forum.  I sure hope that don't get me 10 days in the pokey!

[Badlands Walker]

You have the right to fly a Confederate flag as much as the guy down the street has a right to fly a Norwegian, German, Russian, Scottish, Canadian, or Brazilian flag.

Slim

Say Slim, you are absolutely correct 100%!  I never looked at it that way!  They are proud of their heritage as I am mine!  I guess those friends & visitors who come by my humble ranch will just have to deal with it, won't they???

[Silver Creek Slim]

You have the right to fly a Confederate flag as much as the guy down the street has a right to fly a Norwegian, German, Russian, Scottish, Canadian, or Brazilian flag.

Slim

Say Slim, you are absolutely correct 100%!  I never looked at it that way!  They are proud of their heritage as I am mine!  I guess those friends & visitors who come by my humble ranch will just have to deal with it, won't they???

Yep! 

Slim

[Book Miser]

My recollection may be completely wrong, but it seems to me that a lot of the same folk who object to the Confederate battle flag as a powerful symbol of past oppression, etcetera, are the ones who say that the Stars & Stripes is "just a rag."

[Joyce (AnnieLee)]

Just as in some conversations, I will continue to use the dreaded "N" word until I can sit on my front porch while the kids are coming home from school and NOT hear the "M-F" word.

Not about the flag...

But Book, two wrongs do not make a right. I consider you a friend, but if you were to use either of those terms in front of me, I'd walk away from you.

And my son knows that it doesn't matter how old or how big he gets, if he uses those terms in front of me, he'll NEVER be too old for me to wash his mouth out with soap.

AnnieLee

[Guns Garrett]

One thing that is usually completely overlooked in the "Slavery Caused the Civil War" debate is that of the fifteen States in which slavery was observed only 11 seceded from the Union to form the Confederacy.  Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland and Delaware were all "Slave States"  True, Kentucky and Missouri did have "renegade" pro-Confederate governments (as did Kansas), but the bonafide States' governments never voted for secession.  The western counties of Virginia weren't necessarily pro-slavery, but they were pro-Union, and subsequently they seceded from the Commonwealth of Virginia to form the State of West Virginia.  I have been told WV was admitted to the Union as a "Slave State" (in 1863, just under the Emacipation Proclamation's "deadline"), but curiously, this information is absent from current history books.  The Confederate Battle Flag is an historical symbol of  the Armed Forces of a nation that is no more. (What's commonly called the "Rebel Flag" is actually  the Battle Flag, square for the Army, recangular for the Navy.)  It was not the national flag of the C.S.A.  It has been compared to the Nazi Swastika, which in fact was not a national flag, either, but the symbol of the National Socialist Party of Germany. 

[Foothills Drifter]

(What's commonly called the "Rebel Flag" is actually  the Battle Flag, square for the Army, recangular for the Navy.)  It was not the national flag of the C.S.A. 

Howdy......
Beins that I aint from the South......What is / was the national flag of the C.S.A. ?

Good shootin......
Vern...
(I kinda am from the 'south' I was born in 'South Philadelphia' and raised in 'Southern California' 

[Tangle Eye]

Foothills there were actually 3 "national" flags of the Confederacy. They were somewhat similar in design - the so called Battle Flag was NOT one of the Confederacy's national flags but was an ensign used in battle.

The first flag of the confederacy was called the Stars and Bars. This one was easily confused with the US flag on the battlefield.
The second flag was called the Stainless Banner. This one looked too much like a flag of surrender unless the breeze was blowing.
The last flag (today called the Third National) added a red border to the edge to dispell the image of the flag of surrender.

In addition to national flags and the well known Battle Flag these was the Bonnie Blue secessionist flag and many states and of course military units and militias had unique flags too.

Since I can only post two pictures per post, I'll just invite you to www.confederateflags.org to see these flags and to learn much more if you are interested.

They represent history not hate and are legal to fly anywhere. Those of us with ancestors who fought for the South use them to honor that person just as those with ancestors who fought for the North may also display historic flags. Unfortunatly, history is written by the victor and the tremendously complicated reasons and causes of the War Between the States are known by few and understood by fewer still. It is, as you probably know, a gross oversimplification to say that slavery was the cause of the war. That was just one of many issues and, as some have already stated, was not unique to the South.

[Foothills Drifter]

Howdy Tangle Eye......
THANKX !
Now I know fer sure... 

Good shootin......
Vern...[/color]

[Book Miser]

Great site! Thanks, Tangle.

[Badlands Walker]

Tangle Eye,

Excellent post pard!  Much obliged!

[Badlands Walker]

Great site! Thanks, Tangle.

LMFAO!  Book Miser, I just noticed in yer' signature "SASS Customer".  My ribs are killin' me from laughin' pard!

[Book Miser]

I will consider myself a "member" when they start asking my opinion about things.

For the moment, I'd be happy even to have them treat me as a "customer"--which I define as someone who has given you money for product or services, and from whom you'd like to see some money again. Other than the badge, the so-called protection of my alias and the R.O. certificate/pin, I may as well be spending $35 a year on lottery tickets. (Which I am too chinchy to do. I prefer flushing my money directly into the toilet...)

[Derby Younger]

BW:

"..recent visitors at my home, complain about my Confederate Flags & say they are truly offended by that.."

Well now, that would be the last time those visitors would have had the opportunity to complain. Thank you for your PC comments and don't let the gate hit you in the @@@ on the way out. PC is one thing, poor manners is entirely something else.

My opinion on your question - I've walked Picketts route at Gettysburg, stood in bloody lane at Sharpsburg, in the woods at Chancellorsville and a few other places. The South earned the right, it's their history, it flys.

Best,
Derby Younger
Duelist is Coolest