1st Model Richards

Fox Creek Kid · February 12, 2011, 02:56:08 PM

Well, all the machine work is done and sights regulated. All that is left is to have the have the ring nickelled to match the rest. This is an Uberti Type II that I had someone make a 1st Model Richards ring for. Don't ask for details because it's a long dark story.

Major 2 · February 12, 2011, 05:12:13 PM

I know the story

and yes it is DARK ...but shiny and behind you now

Very nice... I like

Mako · February 12, 2011, 09:22:46 PM

That's cool Kid. Are you satisfied with the machine work?

I know the Type II isn't dimensionally correct, but other than the scaling on certain features are the features correct? Is the firing pin done at the correct angle and is the bushing correct?

~Mako

Fox Creek Kid · February 12, 2011, 10:19:27 PM

Everything is correct except that obviously it is scaled up a tad for the larger Uberti cylinder, e.g., floating FP & shortened hammer.

Black River Smith · February 12, 2011, 10:34:23 PM

Nice! Very nice.

The Pathfinder · February 13, 2011, 08:04:37 AM

FCK, don't know the back story, but if'n you could duplicate that ring you could probably sell a bunch of 'em to other folks as an aftermarket kit for their Richards II's. Course soon as you did someone in Italy would just start making them themselve and price you out of the market. Awww hell, never mind I said anything. But that is one hell of a good looking job, can't wait to see it all nickled up and shiny. I am officially extremely jealous.

Fox Creek Kid · February 13, 2011, 09:59:41 AM

Quote from: The Pathfinder on February 13, 2011, 08:04:37 AM
FCK, don't know the back story, but if'n you could duplicate that ring you could probably sell a bunch of 'em to other folks as an aftermarket kit for their Richards II's. Course soon as you did someone in Italy would just start making them themselve and price you out of the market. Awww hell, never mind I said anything. But that is one hell of a good looking job, can't wait to see it all nickled up and shiny. I am officially extremely jealous.

The "peak" market for these was in the late '90's and early 2000's but as Kenny Howell was not a reliable builder damn few had one. By the way, his rings are investment castings. Mine is machined from tool steel. The rings could be made on CNC machinery & fitted by a gunsmith such as Raven who knows his stuff. I think enough people would pay to convert their Type II to a 1st Model to make it profitable.

Mako is the CAD whiz kid. He would be better able to answer the question about duplicating a ring with say EDM.

Mako · February 13, 2011, 11:08:56 PM

Kid,
Tell you what, since you're going to have to have that ring assembly disassembled to get it plated we could measure it and I could create the models you would need to make more. Then it would just be a matter of getting the machine work done at the appropriate shop(s), the parts might be broken up and placed in different shops according to their capabilities.

I don't have my guy set up to do Case Color Hardening yet, we might have to find a place that is quick and reasonably priced. It doesn't have to be Turnbull quality, it actually just needs to "match" the Uberti finish.

Then we need a smith that can assemble them and set them up. Or, they could just be an aftermarket part, but I think to be successful there should be a gunsmithing service.

If you're interested send what dimensions and specs you have and I can get a head start on it.

~Mako

Fox Creek Kid · February 13, 2011, 11:26:48 PM

Mako, as you know I am in the process of doing a final move, hence any measuring tools I have are packed up. However, one smart move I did with this project is to make the ring removeable. I drilled out the tiny pin holding the cylinder pin in from the rear in the hammer channel of the frame and threaded for a small machine screw.

I also have the old Type II ring that originally came on the gun which is really all you need coupled with the 1st Model ring measurements from the McDowell book to reverse engineer.

For case coloring that is easy. I had a company in IL do a Colt FSS hammer for me and it's perfect. Cost like $25.

http://www.classicgunsinc.com

Mako · February 14, 2011, 12:02:54 PM

I have seen that site before, it is reasonably priced, but still a "retail" pricing...

They charge $120 for a SAA and Percussion pistols, and that is just the finishing, no assembly/disassembly. That is a great price for an individual. I would imagine they would charge probably $100 for The breech assembly and hammer at the very least. If there was enough "volume" they might give a non-retail rate especially if it were in batches and they could just run whatever their crucible capacity would be.

~Mako

buckskin billy · February 14, 2011, 05:00:42 PM

if'n yall could get this off the ground i would definately be interested in buying a kit. if yall can make that happen in a kit and let the buyer worry about having a gunsmith install it would be great.
i wish yall all the luck in the world with this and hope to hear more on it

Mako · February 14, 2011, 06:33:14 PM

Billy,
The only reason why I have been airing the discussion between the Kid and me instead of just talking to him via PM was I wanted to gauge the interest.

I considered the option you spoke of and it would be the preferable one. Most of the kits now sold for conversions are probably installed by the buyers or local gunsmiths. I just know there would be some souls that would want them installed by the makers, I could do it but I don't have the time anymore.

I have been trying to train one of my gunsmiths I used to have for 1911 and AR work to be a single action and cowboy gun gunsmith, but it takes experience or a rote process I need to develop.

Ok, you are so noted...

~Mako

Mako · February 14, 2011, 06:47:08 PM

Billy,
Are you interested in modifying a Uberti Transition Model (Type II) or building one up from a C&B revolver? I was thinking both because I personally want to modify C&B guns to keep the scale correct.

Are you thinking inside or outside lubed cases? BP or Smokeless? Or have you thought that far? It could be made a lot easier for those considering it that it is now. You have to search all over to find out what needs to be done.

~Mako

Pony Racer · February 15, 2011, 09:32:43 AM

FCK - hop you like the pistola!

I got to see the work as it was done.

I have never not been satisfied by the smith that worked on your pistola.

I know part of the long dark story and hope that the "shiny" end brings you lots of shooting happiness!

PR

Fox Creek Kid · February 15, 2011, 03:34:08 PM

P.R., I am glad you posted as I wanted to thank you for the help but had lost your post and since that was over a year & 1/2 ago I had forgotten.

Thanks for your help. I think Nate understood in the end why I was "touchy" about this project after what happened with the original maker.

Pony Racer · February 15, 2011, 09:37:04 PM

FCK - no sweat.

Nate is a good friend of mine and is very talented.

I am glad he could bring the project to a shiny happy end.

PR

Rebel Dave · February 15, 2011, 10:26:02 PM

FCK
Nice pistol, will these parts be avail later, ??. I am anxiuosly awaiting warmer whether, with no snow to get out and burn some powder (black that is).

Rebel Dave

Fox Creek Kid · February 16, 2011, 09:24:17 AM

Quote from: Rebel Dave on February 15, 2011, 10:26:02 PM
FCK
Nice pistol, will these parts be avail later, ??. I am anxiuosly awaiting warmer whether, with no snow to get out and burn some powder (black that is).

Rebel Dave

Rebel Dave & all others. This was a ONE TIME project. There are no 1st Model ring suppliers.

buckskin billy · February 16, 2011, 11:00:52 AM

Quote from: Mako on February 14, 2011, 06:47:08 PM
Billy,
Are you interested in modifying a Uberti Transition Model (Type II) or building one up from a C&B revolver? I was thinking both because I personally want to modify C&B guns to keep the scale correct.

Are you thinking inside or outside lubed cases? BP or Smokeless? Or have you thought that far? It could be made a lot easier for those considering it that it is now. You have to search all over to find out what needs to be done.

~Mako

Quote from: Mako on February 14, 2011, 06:33:14 PM
Billy,
The only reason why I have been airing the discussion between the Kid and me instead of just talking to him via PM was I wanted to gauge the interest.

I considered the option you spoke of and it would be the preferable one. Most of the kits now sold for conversions are probably installed by the buyers or local gunsmiths. I just know there would be some souls that would want them installed by the makers, I could do it but I don't have the time anymore.

I have been trying to train one of my gunsmiths I used to have for 1911 and AR work to be a single action and cowboy gun gunsmith, but it takes experience or a rote process I need to develop.

Ok, you are so noted...

~Mako

i would prefer a cap and ball conversion of a 1860 army as the demensions would be closer to correct. i would only load real balck powder and shoot heel based bullets. i would settle for "converting" a type 2 richards if that was all i could get. if'n i had the type one conversion ring i could install this on a type 2 conversion.
of course i would need a real gunsmith to do a cap and ball conversion

Fox Creek Kid · February 16, 2011, 11:18:45 AM

Quote from: buckskin billy on February 16, 2011, 11:00:52 AM

i would prefer a cap and ball conversion of a 1860 army as the demensions would be closer to correct. i would only load real balck powder and shoot heel based bullets. i would settle for "converting" a type 2 richards if that was all i could get. if'n i had the type one conversion ring i could install this on a type 2 conversion.
of course i would need a real gunsmith to do a cap and ball conversion

Well then I guess I "settled" as I didn't want to shell out $1,500 for an "authentic" 1st Model Richards, albeit without a roll engraved cylinder. When your dream gun is finished post photos for us to critique.