Officers Embroidered Crossed Rifle Hat and Cap Devices

[cpt dan blodgett]

In 1875 reg effective 1876 the hunting horn went away (good thing) and was replaced with Crossed Rifles

Does any one made embroidered Crossed Rifles for Hats and Caps??

[JimBob]

i dont think a crossed rifle embroidered badge was ever issued

Officers forage cap insignia 1875-1895 were embroidered gold crossed rifles with silver regimental numbers.Reference Emerson's Ency.of U.S.Army Insignia and Uniforms,p.43.

[liten]

ss firearms have those, but only incorperated with a number , not crossed rifles on there own

[Pitspitr]

Yeah, to the best of my knowledge you about have to have them custom made.

[cpt dan blodgett]

Emailed SS Rifles.  They don't do anything other than what is in the catalog - bummer

Any body know the specs Length and height of the Hat Badge Rifles and the Kepi Badge as well.

[JimBob]

Any body know the specs Length and height of the Hat Badge Rifles and the Kepi Badge as well.

I think according to regulations there was no insignia authorized for the field campaign hat.

The embroidered insignia for the forage cap(kepi) for officers would I assume follow the regulation pattern.

From the 1889 QM specifications:

Crossed Rifles:

Two rifles crossing each other at a point
equidistant from the butt and muzzle,
making the upper space form an angle of
137 degrees.

Length of rifles two and five eighths inches,
diameter at crossing about one-eighth inches,
the whole ornament occupuying a rectangular
space of about two and seven sixteenths inches
wide by one and three eighths inches high.

Letters and numbers one half inch high.

Emerson's book pictures a WD sample of the embroidered officers forage cap insignia with the notation,"embroidery width 3 inches".

[JimBob]

the officers wore the brass wreath on there kepi through the iw and spanam wars  that or nothing! other ranks brass crossed rifles. 

The wreath was authorized for staff and general officer ranks.

[liten]

 some   sergeant could wear it as well,   the brass wreath  seem to be the most popular with officers and you can buy those on ebay, but there was no hard fast rules for officers back then, so all you can do is go with the regulations

[JimBob]

yes some high rank sergeant could wear it as well,  capt! the wreath  is the way go if you want to be orignal, ss firearms have them and you buy them on ebay

Period photographs of soldiers in the field say otherwise.

[Pitspitr]

yes some high rank sergeant could wear it as well,   the brass wreath  seem to be the most popular with officers and you can buy those on ebay, but there was no hard fast rules for officers back then, so all you can do is go the regulations

This is incorrect, except the part about going by the regulations! The one use prescribed for the brass wreaths was for hospital stewards. General officers and staff officers wore embroidered wreaths.

The hunting horn was superceded by the Crossed Rifles in 1872. From 1872 to early 1876 Regulation did not prescribe where the regimental number and company letter were to be placed, whether in the upper or lower angle. There  was no insignia prescribed for the campaign hat other than the branch colored hat cords (which were universally despised by the men and promptly thrown away)

thats out in the feild ,tho   , theres a officers kepi on ebay for sale and that has got the brass wreath and cowans auctions have one  as well, both late iw

One must be very careful abut using advertisements for reference. Sellers often don't do their homework about what something is. They simply want to sell what they have. Many fraternal organizations wore military style uniforms so what you're seeing might be a club kepi.
Many times in the field The men typically didn't use or wear much of anything that was regualtion issue. In his book Campaigning With Crook , General Charles King made the comment that their column looked more like a bunch of itenerant miners because they didn't wear much uniform.

http://www.grandarmyofthefrontier.org/uniforms/usa1872.htm

[JimBob]

Pitspitr,

In checking over the brass metallic wreath insignia it appears that besides Hospital Steward it was also authorized with proper branch insignia inside the wreath for Post Quartermaster Sergeant and Commissary Sergeant also.

[liten]

Pitspitr,

In checking over the brass metallic wreath insignia it appears that besides Hospital Steward it was also authorized with proper branch insignia inside the wreath for Post Quartermaster Sergeant and Commissary Sergeant also.

i wonder what insignia the capt went for in the finish ? guess we will have to wait until the next parade 

[Pitspitr]

In checking over the brass metallic wreath insignia it appears that besides Hospital Steward it was also authorized with proper branch insignia inside the wreath for Post Quartermaster Sergeant and Commissary Sergeant also.

Yep you're right I missed that. I also mis-quoted the date that the crossed rifles superceded the hunting horn. It was 1875, not 1872 as I said earlier.

[JimBob]

Yep you're right I missed that. I also mis-quoted the date that the crossed rifles superceded the hunting horn. It was 1875, not 1872 as I said earlier.

I find many of the insignia references for that period hard to follow sometimes.They were changing from the Civil War period insignia but it seems not all at once at one time in an easily formatted/understandable progression.

[cpt dan blodgett]

Yep you're right I missed that. I also mis-quoted the date that the crossed rifles superceded the hunting horn. It was 1875, not 1872 as I said earlier.

1875 Reg effective 1876

[cpt dan blodgett]

There seems to be no demand for infantry insignia.  Am reticent to special order the hat device, no telling what it would cost.  Part of the problem may also be every time the service rifle changed so did the crossed rifles until the current ones were standardized.  Guess I will have to make due with the Hunting Horn for the Kepi and Act as if it is pre 76 and use the Brass Rifles on the Tan Campaign Hat I used for the WR Color Guard.

Buck at Coon Creek has the mission of creating my 1880s Infantry Dress Helmet as well as obtaining the proper captain of 6th Infantry Russian Knot Shoulder Paddles.  Leta did a great job of converting a CW Senior officers coat to the 1872 Junior Officers Frock Coat.  A little Bling on the cuff is a good thing No"?

Still undecided about a full dress Civil War Frock Coat with Epalettes and the Hardee Hat.

[liten]

all the period officers hats i have  seen have no insignia at all !,  but all had  the officers hat cord and a lot of them also stuck with the  black  hat

[Drydock]

Just a note: in 1895 the Cap device was changed to a Shielded eagle for all officers, with service branch devices moving to the collar.  Enlisted continued to wear branch of service on their Caps until 1902.  Hats only (Officialy) used cords/tassels/acorns to indicate branch/enlisted/officer, though these were often left off. 

[Drydock]

http://www.cooncreekoldwest.com/images2/misc1.jpg

upper left hand image, there are embroidered crossed rifles. Call and ask them, if they don't have it, they can find it or have it made.

[liten]

im lost not sure who the captain wants be