Leather sewing machines

Trailrider · April 07, 2011, 11:55:30 AM

I have a TSC440 (basic machine for the Ferd 2000), and use the following:

Holster Belt Loops and other heavy work up to two layers of 10-11 oz.: Top: 277 Bobbin: 277 Needle: 200

Cartridge loops Top: 207 Bobbin: 207 Needle: 180

Lining to holster body Top: 138 Bobbin: 138 Needle: 160

I wax the bobbin thread by running it through a cold wax box atop the machine. I use Solaris' cold liquid wax. It does get a little messy when winding the bobbins, but it is well worth it. I still use nylon or polyester thread in these sizes, depending on what's available. I know that most folks recommend using a smaller size thread on the bobbin than on the main, but I've had excellent results doing it this way for at least 25 years. Just have to groove the leather deep enough. No reason to change now, as I've had zero complaints from customers from as far away as Norway.

Cliff Fendley · April 07, 2011, 05:44:18 PM

I'm pretty convinced that is the problem Outrider. I don't know why Steve sent that size with it and no needles that are the proper size for the thread but anyway I'll order some more thread and hopefully sort it out.

It does fine on a couple layers like a holster but on a knife sheath with a welt and especially on some of my sheaths that start with three layers and taper up to five it causes the thread to do funny things. I had to pull it out and finish off the last few stitches by hand.

Thanks Trailrider, I was considering just getting 277 for top and bottom. Most of my work on this machine will be 3 layers of 8-9 oz on knife sheaths and many of those sheaths taper from the 3 layers up to 5 layers where I form the belt loop and the retaining strap attaches. Of course there is sewing the belt loop on many that will only be two layers of 8-9. I was hoping the 277 would be kind of in the middle enough to cover all of this but I know that is getting pretty thick. Do you think I need to go larger than 277 for that?

What is the advantage to waxing the bobbin thread?

outrider · April 07, 2011, 06:30:05 PM

Cliff,

If properly set the machine should sew through multiple layers using the 277 thread.

do you ever get down to the Chattanooga area???

Cliff Fendley · April 07, 2011, 06:52:11 PM

Not very often Outrider but if your offering some advice I'll sure try and make it a point next time I'm in the area. If your ever in the Louisville area give me a shout cause I'd love to visit. I can't offer much in the way of leathercraft that you don't know but I can give you a knifemaking shop tour

TN Mongo · April 07, 2011, 06:57:54 PM

Cliff,

I agree with Outrider on this one, your needle is too small for 346. Personally, I've never had great luck with 346. I bet 277 on top and 207 in the bobbin, with a 200 needle will fix your problems.

Cliff Fendley · April 07, 2011, 07:03:43 PM

Thanks fellas I felt like I had the problem figured out but it's comforting to here it from ones with more knowledge. Needless to say it was a little disappointing to have troubles right off the bat. Will order some different thread in the next few days.

outrider · April 08, 2011, 07:15:18 AM

Cliff,

If you get down into the Chatt. area let me know...Mongo also lives here...so we could get together...

Trailrider · April 08, 2011, 02:41:18 PM

Quote from: Cliff Fendley on April 07, 2011, 05:44:18 PM
I'm pretty convinced that is the problem Outrider. I don't know why Steve sent that size with it and no needles that are the proper size for the thread but anyway I'll order some more thread and hopefully sort it out.

It does fine on a couple layers like a holster but on a knife sheath with a welt and especially on some of my sheaths that start with three layers and taper up to five it causes the thread to do funny things. I had to pull it out and finish off the last few stitches by hand.

Thanks Trailrider, I was considering just getting 277 for top and bottom. Most of my work on this machine will be 3 layers of 8-9 oz on knife sheaths and many of those sheaths taper from the 3 layers up to 5 layers where I form the belt loop and the retaining strap attaches. Of course there is sewing the belt loop on many that will only be two layers of 8-9. I was hoping the 277 would be kind of in the middle enough to cover all of this but I know that is getting pretty thick. Do you think I need to go larger than 277 for that?

What is the advantage to waxing the bobbin thread?

I doubt you need anything heavier than 277. The synthetic threads are pretty stout. The larger sthicknesses for our purposes are mainly for looks. Were you stitching three or four layers of 12-14 oz. saddle skirting, you might want to go heavier. But for our purposes 277 should be more than sufficient. The advantage to waxing the bobbin thread is that it helps keep the bobbin thread from pulling up to the top of the leather layers. Not sure exactly why it works, but without it my TSC440 doesn't give nice even stitches. You could wax the top thread, but I've never found it necessary, and it would be awfully messy! Some folks will run their thread through a hot wax pot, but, again I've never used it.

TN Mongo · April 08, 2011, 08:59:08 PM

It seems to me I remember something about a spray lubricant that I saw on the Ferdco website. I don't remember if it was something they sold or just a product they recommended. It's basically the seem idea that Trailrider mentioned, but it was simply a matter of spraying the lubricant on.

The people at Ferdco are also good people and they might be able to give you some pointers, especially if your going to order some of their thread.

outrider · April 09, 2011, 08:45:03 AM

If you call Ferdco ask for Ron....he is one of the owners...very helpful

daddyeaux · April 13, 2011, 09:43:41 PM

Dang guys, I guess I need to call Steve and check on my Cobra.....hope it ain't hung up in customs or glowing in the dark.....

Cliff Fendley · April 13, 2011, 10:22:14 PM

I talked to him yesterday but he never said if customs had him held up. Then again I never asked.

After I explained again what was happening and the thread would fray when you cut it and would ball up when sliding through the needle he was also convinced I got a bad spool of thread and he is sending me some more. He's sending 277 this time also. He said he regularly sews with 346 and the 200 needles and after looking again at the test pieces that is what they had been doing with mine during testing. It was from a different spool of thread though.

outrider · April 14, 2011, 07:27:27 AM

Cliff,

I am quite sure this problem will be ironed out.....

Daddy....bet you are getting anxious for that machine to arrive....ain't we having fun

Slowhand Bob · April 14, 2011, 08:13:01 AM

Now do not laugh or you will hurt my feelings but I did go though something similar with the thread. It had the guys at Tippmann and Artisan scratching their heads until I figured it out. In some of my posts I describe my bullish way of doing things and how it made using the machines very tough to learn. Right off I had problems with the Aerostitch and then again with the Toro fraying thread, we swapped thread sizes, needle sizes and styles but all was to no avail. After a bit I started noticing a rough spot at the rear of the base plate of my Toro and that lead to some investigating. Turning the wheel by hand showed good clearance with the needle or thread no getting close so what the??? A check showed this same rough spot on my BOSS, my Aero and my Toro and further investigation revealed that I was literally flexing my needles back into nibbling at the plates of these machines. It finally made since, all the needles with dull burred tips and all the frayed thread finally came together. I can tell you right now that the sewing wasnt loking good but them dang machines was learning who was the real BOSS.

PS: Very possibly why my dancing has been likened to plowing a mule!

Ten Wolves Fiveshooter · April 14, 2011, 09:48:37 AM

Slowhand Bob, I don't have a sewing machine, but by-god I love your stories.

tEN

Cliff Fendley · April 14, 2011, 12:46:56 PM

Bob, how were you flexing the needles?

I don't think I'm doing anything like that, I hold the threads for the first stitch to lock but after that the machine does the work.

Slowhand Bob · April 14, 2011, 04:41:07 PM

Cliff, basically I was forcing heavy leather against the needle faster than its feed rate was able to accept and this was bending (flexing) the needle back as it rose into its highest most unsupported position. Several needles actually snapped and I thought it was caused by hard stiff leather and didnt realize it was snapping against the back of the slot as it came down against it. Not sure what was going through my haid but since I was trying to use the slowest rate that the machine would run, why try to push the leather??? REMEMBER, I never said I was the brightest bulb in the pack. I do still have control issues but it is a fact that the machine only needs a bit of subtle guidance to do its job. Dad always told me that there was a reason folks didnt use sledge hammers fer playing pool but I just never did get the drift of that.

Rayban · April 14, 2011, 07:43:30 PM

Quote from: Slowhand Bob on April 14, 2011, 04:41:07 PM
Cliff, basically I was forcing heavy leather against the needle faster than its feed rate was able to accept and this was bending (flexing) the needle back as it rose into its highest most unsupported position. Several needles actually snapped and I thought it was caused by hard stiff leather and didnt realize it was snapping against the back of the slot as it came down against it. Not sure what was going through my haid but since I was trying to use the slowest rate that the machine would run, why try to push the leather??? REMEMBER, I never said I was the brightest bulb in the pack. I do still have control issues but it is a fact that the machine only needs a bit of subtle guidance to do its job. Dad always told me that there was a reason folks didnt use sledge hammers fer playing pool but I just never did get the drift of that.

....yet you come up with Slowhand??....how did you arrive at that, pray tell.....

daddyeaux · April 14, 2011, 11:42:09 PM

Outrider, I sure am getting anxious...and learning a lot here about needles and threads.....keep it up guys.I will be an expert by the time I get the machine.......gonna call Steve tomorrow and check on the progress...

Slowhand Bob · April 15, 2011, 06:49:39 AM

Rayban, a long long time ago in a galaxy far away, as a young pup, I had an old rail road boss who would tell me that I was the slowest hand he ever had! Another name I came close to choosing was Dunjin Man but the wife did not like it, a gift from another old conductor.