Leather sewing machines

[Rayban]

Outrider I don't even know how to start sewing a bullet loop on a machine. Where can I see how that is done? If I understood right Steve said the machine will come with a foot designed for that.

Sure would like to see the various methods the fine craftsmen here use to sew bullet loops.

[outrider]

Cliff,
Do you have a copy of John Bianchi's DVD's on how to make a western holster?  He goes through the process of making a complete buscadero gunbelt from scratch (making the pattern) to completion....I think there are 3 DVD's in this set....well worth the money.  Once you get your machine....and I know you are getting antsy (excited) about getting the machine.....you will have a learning curve...but it will go quick.. and I am quite sure Steve will be there if you have questions......when doing bullets loops I use the right presser foot...I have the Ferdco Pro-2000 version of the same machine but the presser feet are slightly different than the ones you will be getting.

question:  Did you order the servo motor with the needle positioning capabilities?  One thing you have to learn when doing a bullet loop is that the needle has to be half way up when making the turn otherwise you may skip a stitch   (or for that matter anytime you make a turn)

[outrider]

Rayban and Preacher...where are you gents from???

[Cliff Fendley]

Thanks for the info Outrider, I'll check into the DVD's. I think Steve told me John Bianchi is the one that helped him design the feet for this machine and I think one is specificly for doing bullet loops and such. In fact he also said John Bianchi is the one that first called it a dream machine when demonstrating it and Steve went with the name.

This is the machine I'm getting from Steve. It has a digital DC servo motor. http://www.leathermachineco.com/catalog.php?item=1

[outrider]

In the DVD John Bianchi is using a Juki/Ferdco Pro-2000 the dvd's were filmed in 1997) which he refers to as the best stitcher there is....the Pro-2000 is basically the same machine that you will be getting...these are all based on the Juki 441 stitcher.  So Bianchi knows these machines very well..and according to Ron at Ferdco  John Bianchi has already made a million dollars worth of holsters on that Pro-2000.

The DVD's are available through: Gun Video 1-800-942-8283.   gunvideo.com

Thsi is a good informational set on holster making...let me know if you need any further info

[Rayban]

Rayban and Preacher...where are you gents from???

I live in Temperance Michigan, it's in the south-eastern most corner of the state.
Toledo Industrial Machine is just 30 minutes south of me, and it's where I bought my Cowboy 3500.
It's good to have a leather machine friend so close by

[daddyeaux]

Guys, I picked up an old Singer cylinder arm machine last night. I will post some pics tonight after I clean it up a bit. Still waiting on the Cobra 4.....

[outrider]

what model is the Singer???

[daddyeaux]

It is a 29k machine. Steve says it is a light weight machine. Anyone use one of these?

[outrider]

The 29 K is what is referred to as a "patch machine"..used primarily to repair boots and sleeves.  It has a rotating presser foot arrangement...and yes it is a very light weight machine..most people that I know use it to install zippers in boots.  I think  Singer still makes this machine for third world countries...also Ferdco, Artisan, Adler, and others offer a model of this machine

[Cliff Fendley]

I talked to Steve week before last and they were putting my machine together then and would be shipping out. I still haven't heard from the carrier about delivery though.

[outrider]

Ahhhhh  the excitement builds...hang in there Cliff...

[Coca-Cola Kid]

I talked to Steve week before last and they were putting my machine together then and would be shipping out. I still haven't heard from the carrier about delivery though.

Got to be patient.    I finally got mine last week.  It's a great machine (Class 4) and I like it a whole lot better than the Artisan Toro 3000.  The bobbin winder on the front leaves a little to be desired though.  I went back to using a bobbin winder shaft that I had taken out of one of the table top versions and chucked into my drill. 

[daddyeaux]

So this Singer 29k looks like it is only good for heavy fabric and light leather. I haven't bought it yet, the owner told me to take it and try it.
I talked to Steve today and he said an order of machines are still on schedule to ship around April 2. But he did say that it may take a couple extra days to get through customs cuz they have to check them for radiation now.

[Cliff Fendley]

The Cobra 4 is here! I've got it together and sewing but me and it just gotta learn to get along I'm certainly not ready to sew a project yet.

Outrider! I got a couple questions. Do you normally do a back stitch when you start or just start sewing at the end of the seam? My concern is the lock stitch pulling out. My friend that has the Tippmann Aerostitch will usually start backwards from the end for about 3 or 4 stitches, stitch to the starting point then spin the work around and go for it, once he gets to the end he just back stitches 3 or 4. Steve shows in the instructions and DVD back stitching at the end.

My other question is what thread do you prefer for holsters, belts, sheaths, etc. It came with 346 for the top and 207 for the bobbin and a large needle installed. I don't care for the size of hole it's punching and think it would be much neater with a smaller needle and maybe 277 thread on top. Am I thinking right on this?

The machine came with three packs of needles of different sizes. 200 is in the machine and it also came with some 180's and 160's. The book refers to #23, #24, and #25 needles.

They had a 5 layer 7/8 inch thick test piece (pretty impressive) on it still attached by the threads so I guess pretty much adjusted for the setup in it so I suppose I may have to back off the tension for smaller thread.

[outrider]

Howdy Cliff,

Wow..that is exciting...finally getting your machine...you won't be sorry   To answer your questions:
1) When starting to sew I usually back stitch one stitch to lock in the run then go forward... and at the end I back stitch 3 to lock it again.  Back stitching 3 at the beginning is also ok...but I have found that one holds securely enough.  Best to set the stitching at 6 stitches per inch then use an overstitch wheel to mark your beginning stitches.  This gives you a starting point...put you needle at the third over stitch mark (or in my case the second) then back stitch to the first mark then go forward to the end then back stitch 3.  You always want to lock stitch..otherwise you may end up with some unravelling.
2) This machine has a 794 needle system....needles sizes are as follows:  Note: I use mostly 277 top/207 bobbin #25/200 needle
Thread Size: 415 top/346 bobbin = #27/250 needle
                 346 top/277 bobbin = #26/230 needle
                 277 top/207 bobbin = #25/200 needle
                 207 top/207 bobbin = #24/180 needle
                 207 top/138 bobbin = #23/160 needle

I have used nylon thread but find that it has a tendency to frazzle after awhile...I now strickly use Polyester thread and have had excellant luck with it...you can buy it through Ferdco if you wish...also I use "spear point" needles...you can get round points at Tandy, however they make the holes too large.  talk with Steve about the proper needles..because there are several configurations...take a look at the Schmetz web site for the different needle point configurations.

Hope this helps

[Cliff Fendley]

Thanks Outrider, I didn't know if I could start in reverse or not. The needle in it and the extra ones sent are not round, they leave a diamond shaped hole but a larger hole than I like. Actually the hole might be fine but the thread seems to sit on one side of the holes rather than centered or laying in the holes from point to point.

I'll probably need to call Steve for the fine tuning. His test piece looks perfect so I'm wondering if it's me I havent tried stitching a piece as thick as the test piece though so it might be a tension adjustment or something. I just don't want to start screwing things and get it out of whack. I've watched the video about 5 times but don't still don't know what to do

Great tip on the overstitch wheel starting out, thanks.

[TN Mongo]

Cliff,

I love my Cobra 4.  Outrider is suppose to come see mine, but has yet to make it over to my house.  His Ferdco machine is great, but he paid a lot more than we did for our Cobras. 

I back stitch 3 or 4 spaces just to make sure at the start and the end.  Steve recommends the nylon thread for the Cobra machine and I have had no problems with it.  I have, however, started taking a wood burner and melting the small piece of thread that's left after I clip it.  With poly thread I had better luck just shoving the end back into the last hole.  I have some left over Ferdco poly thread and it also runs very well in my Cobra.  I've had good luck running 227 thread on the top and 207 for the bobbin.  Enjoy your Cobra 4.

[Cliff Fendley]

I'm still having some trouble with it. You'll be stitching fine and all of a sudden the thread will started unraveling and not sliding through the needle or sometimes it will just miss a stitch or jam up. I finally realized when it's jamming up the hook is somehow piercing the thread. 

I've come to the conclusion it's the thread and I'm going to order some more from somewhere. Steve sent this thread and it's the 346 and he sent 207 for the bottom. the biggest needles sent were 200 which was in it. I think it's a combo of either bad thread or the thread to large for the needle or both.

This thread really unravels bad when you trim it. It's a real chore to thread the needle with it. Had to put bees wax on the end to get it to stay together to thread the needle.

I called Steve and he said my leather was dry and needed to be cased. I aint going for that. Gil's Tippman aerostitch will stitch 6 layers of this same leather without a problem. I use Wickett and Craig leather. I will say it likes to stitch the skirting leather better than the carving leather.

I'm going to order some 277 thread for the top. I was leaning toward ordering the polyester from Ferdco so I'll get both so top and bottom are polyester.

Steve still had the test piece i the machine when it arrived. I put it together and stitched fine with it until the strand of thread he left in it ran out. Once I put this new thread the problems started showing up.

[outrider]

Cliff,

The top thread may be what is causing your problem...346 thread requires a 230 size needle...whereas 277 uses a 200 needle.  perhaps the thread jams are due to a "too small of a hole" created by using the larger thread with a smaller needle....just a thought.