Convex Borders - what tools do I need / suggestions

[bedbugbilly]

I've seen a number of holsters that have what I would call "convex" borders - i.e. varying width borders embossed so that the leather between the border lines is rounded "up" not down.  See my attached sketch.   I would really like to do some of these in varying widths - 1/8", 1/4", 3/8" etc.  At one time, I saw a set of tools that I think were made to do this - I believe they may have been Osborn - that had wood handles and a metal end, cut out much like the profile in my second sketch only curved on the back as you held them - I think they were "pulled" to do the embossing of the border.  I've thought about making some stamps with the profile as in my sketch but my concern is on the curves - especially on tight inside and outside curves.  I've even thought about trying to make a set similar to the tools I saw that were used by hand - or - trying to locate small diameter pulleys of some sort that had the groove the right widths that I could make a handle to mount them on.  The holsters I've seen, appear to have been either "stamped embossed", "rolled embosed" or possibly embossed with a tool similar to what I think Osborn may have made at one time.  They don't appear to have been cut and beveled, etc.  Anybody have any input or suggestions on a good way to make borders like this?  Any help would be appreciated.  I've tried the adjustable tickler and it doesn't give me the pronounced convex curve that I want.  I want a very pronounced, convex border that really stands out and looks "molded".  Sorry for the poor quality of sketches but they will at least give you an idea of what I'm looking to do.  Thanks!   

[Slowhand Bob]

I think you are looking for a beeder(sp) and they are availabe in two styles, of which I am familiar.  The nicer ones are made by a couple of high end tool makers and are handled  while the others are simply made to fit in a swivel knife.  Check Tandy for the swivel knife style, I think they may still offer them???

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

           Try this link, you'll see the beader blade listed in different widths, I use the Henley knife and there blades and beader blade, real quality stuff, and I recommend them highly.

           
              http://gemosphere.tripod.com/GEMOSPHERE/Swivel_Knivesx.html


                            tEN wOLVES 

[Boothill Bob]

Is beader blade the same as double line blade??

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

  Yes Bob, some work well and some don't, I wasn't happy with the one Tandy sells, it's made out of ceramic and it didn't come very sharp.

       tEN wOLVES

[bedbugbilly]

Alright . . . now you fellas have got me confused . . which isn't hard to do!   

10W - I hit the link you posted but I didn't see the "beader blade" other than mention of it.  I looked on Tandy's and didn't see their's either.  From a later post - I'm getting the idea that a "beader blade" is a double blade?  If so, I'm assuming it cuts parallel lines at the same time?

I'm looking for a way to "emboss" the "convex" curve without any cutting.  i.e. - a tool that can be moved over the cased leather with pressure applied (by hand) that will result in a "round top" border with a line on each side - I don't know if I'm explaining it very well but my sketch I posted earlier gives a profile of what I'm talking about.  It seems like it would have to be a roller tool of some tpe similar to a "rolling embosser" or a solid tool such as an Osborn edger, but it would be held at a right angle to the leather surface and either tilted forward and pushed or tilted back and pulled?  I think we're both headed in the same direction but in different ways of doing it?  On the originals I've seen, it perhaps was done with a hand-crank embossing machine?  I know I've seen a set of hand held tools that was made for this purpose but I don't rememer where - they were antiques but I think that they were made by Osborn - I could be wrong.  I don't find anything like them in those that sell Osborn tools now.  I've seeen "bead borders" like this as wide as 1/2" - if you were to use a "beader" blade that cuts parallel lines (if that is what they do) - then how do you form the "bead" or convex border?  What tools? 

Don't know if I being clear or not so will throw this post out and see where it goes?  Thanks!   

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

bedbugbilly, they don't show a blown up picture of the beader blade, they just give you the widths that are available, on the link I posted, to get the rounded effect , you just tilt the blade up in the front ( towards yourself ) as you do your cutting, it will round the edges as you go, then you just need to use a bevelor to take the sides down, if you need further rounding of the edge, use your modeling spoon and hold it at a 45 degree angle as you smooth down the edge, it will round the edge nicely, and soften the look.

     tEN wOLVES 

[rickk]

Bedbugbilly,

If you cant find what you are looking for, might it be possible to make one out of hardwood with a router?

Rick

[Dalton Masterson]

Weaver leather has a machine that will do this, but it is a roller type machine and I think it has a female and male roller to emboss the lines in.
http://www.leathersupply.com/downloads/catalog/MasterTools.pdf
It will be the second page down on the pdf in the link.
DM

[bedbugbilly]

Thank you all pards!  As I said, I think we were heading in the same direction - just w wearin' different coldhoppers to get us there.

10Wolves - that makes sense and I can see how it would work - I was thinking that it may take some extra handwork with a modeler, etc. I've done some playing with making "concave" borders using a mmodeler with a large ball - one of the nost important things I learned there is that the moisture content of the casing has to be just right or the epidermis will pull. Thanks for cearing up the concept of the "beader" blade and the steps after the cutting - greatly appreciate it.  I've got a half a dozen holsters ahead of me to do so I'm going to concentrate on the border on a couple of them as it is an area that I think I could be doing a lot more work on to be creative and more decorative. 

Rickk - I haven't ruled the idea of trying to make something out of wood.  As soon as I can get up to one of the wood supply stores in Tucson, I'm going to see if I can't come up with a few small pieces of ebony, ironwood or similar that would have the right density to hold up - plus I have a couple of ideas for making some slickers that will work in some of the things I run across.

Dalton - I'm a thinkin' that a couple of the original holsters I looked at were done that way with a male/female roller.  Not too much dirrerent than the Pexto rollers that we used for sheet metal work years ago (I used to teach shop).  They looked like they were "raised" from the flesh side to the epidermis side just as you are talking about.  I'd love to have a hand roller but the amount of work I do doesn't warrant it.  Thanks again fellows for all the input - now to sit down and try it all!   

[rickk]

Bedbugbilly,

another random though or two...

if you try wood for a stamper you could put some saran wrap over the work before you stamp it to keep the moisture away from the wood. I would think that oak would last quite a while as long as it stayed dry.

Alternatively, you could dip the wood in Devcon or similar epoxy to harden and waterproof it.

[bedbugbilly]

rickk - good thought on the saran wrap - I could see the wood taking on moisture and the pattern changing along the way!  Oops!     That really was something that I probably woundn't have thought of until it was too late . . I'd have been in too much of a hurry to see if it was going to work!  Thanks!   

[Marshal Will Wingam]

TW, I have one of the ceramic beader blades from Tandy and it was not a good working tool when I got it. I cured that by rubbing rouge on the edge of a piece of leather and then polishing the inside of the blade so it didn't drag. After that, I stropped it on the outside flat edges to sharpen it.

[Judge Lead]

Contrary to a popular belief, ceramic blades CAN be sharpened and be kept sharp in exactly the same manner as steel blades.
As Marshal Will has pointed out, the curved section can be polished by using a length of round covered in rouge as can the cutting edges be sharpened/polished using a stop. Don't discard it because it dose not work as expected straight out of the box.

Once it is right, it keeps the edge/s keener for longer (much longer).

Regards

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

TW, I have one of the ceramic beader blades from Tandy and it was not a good working tool when I got it. I cured that by rubbing rouge on the edge of a piece of leather and then polishing the inside of the blade so it didn't drag. After that, I stropped it on the outside flat edges to sharpen it.

     Will, I had to do that to my Tandy ceramic beader too, but I never got the inside done very well, darn fingers kept cramping up on me, I'll have to give this another try later, the Henley works so well for me, I usually just grab it, thanks for the heads up Pal, I add this to my need to do list, LOL

     Judge Lead, I agree, it isn't a bad knife, it just needs work to bring up to sharp, WC told me when they first started selling there ceramic blades, and that's all of them, they came with sharp ready to use edges right out of the box, that sure isn't the case now, mine are worked over pretty well on the outside, but the inside needs help, I need to set some time aside for doing this.

        tEN wOLVES

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Henley... Drool

[JD Alan]

I ave a henley knife that I love, with several blades. 10 Wolves, do you have a favorite width for the beader blade, as in "If I were only getting one" type of thing, for holster sized work?

Thanks a lot! JD

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

    JD, I got the widest one they make, I believe it's the 5/32".


              tEN

[Slowhand Bob]

Billy, in your original post you had a drawing that looked pretty much like the working part of the the Craftool swivel knife beader blades.  Beaders can also be had as real nice handled tools from a couple of suppliers like Horse Shoe Brand and I find them to be much easier to work with due to the rolled contour of the working surface, think reeeeal pricey though!  The real small (fine) sizes require a bit of practice and care to get good results, its easy to destroy the pattern with to much pressure.