Endshake, etc.

[Fox Creek Kid]

I have one of the first RM '60 Army conversions sold in the country (Sept. 2001). Unfortunately, it was one of the earlier ones that had the incorrect long breech cone like the '72 Open Top and a shorter cylinder. When correct cylinders & barrels became available as parts I fitted both to the gun. I needed to fit the cylinder as the gas ring (collar) was a tad bit too long. Well, I filed a few thousandths too much IMO as that has now become greater. Also, the new barrel did not fit the arbor perfectly in that the wedge can slide in w/o any pressure. Despite this the gun shoots a ragged hole at 10 yds. & I have shot the hell out out of it. Even had the breech face welded up & filed down for peening as there is not enough "meat" for a recoil plate.

I love this gun & would not sell it for love nor money. I figure the only solution is to do the brass button trick on the arbor as well as have the gas ring welded up & recut to eliminate endshake. Of course, I could also fit a new cylinder which is $115 from VTI. Pettifogger and Coffinmaker, I need help. Either one of you two old salts want to take this on? 

[Coffinmaker]

FCK,

Old Salt??  OLD SALT???  Well I resemble that.  To be honest, the new cylinder from VTI is probably about the same as far as cost goes.  Were it my gun, I'd toss the cylinder and fit a new one.  Of course, the other problem is I can't weld for spit.  Last time I welded on a thin piece, I wound up with a "blob" and had to buy a new part anyway.

Let's wait for Pettifogger to chime in.  He may be a better welder than I am

Coffinmaker

[Pettifogger]

The last time I tried to weld a small, delicate, irreplaceable gun part --

[Abilene]

Would it be possible to machine a thin circular shim/spacer to place over the arbor in front of the cylinder?

[Rebel Dave]

Try making a shim from some shim stock. I have used this on a few parts and it will work. Also you could  try removing the gas shield, and   counter bore the cylinder and making a new insertable one, to the correct lenght.
Rebel Dave.

[Fox Creek Kid]

For the record, ASM made a limited amount of '72 OT's. Yes, '72 OT's and not a conversion. I had one back in 2000 if I remember rightly and it had the removeable gas ring to be used in front of the cylinder. It was a total POS and the gun actually shot better w/o it than with it!! That was my one and only experience with "detachable" gas rings.

Ok, the new cylinder seems to be the way to go. Any tricks on fitting it to the gun as I will need to probably shave off the front of the gas ring a tad and this is probably best done on a lathe, right?

And what about this loose wedge? 

[Coffinmaker]

FCK,

The gas ring for an ASM was different.  They were cut out for the bottom of the barrel and the cut out was perfect for trapping gun gas.  Especially with BP.  The bottom of the Uberti barrel is machined to accept a full round gas ring.

I don't use a lathe on a Uberti gas ring.  I use a lapping plate with 400gr wet or dry and do it by hand because normally it is such a small amount of metal to remove.  Establish your head space first.  Often when installing a new cylinder, after establishing correct head space, there is very little metal to remove from the gas ring.

Is your barrel to frame fit correct??

You may want to try replacing the wedge.  The wedges sometimes vary a few thou in dimension.  Also, I don't actually know if the wedge for the original guns were different.  Never looked.  The wedge can be shimmed.

Coffinmaker

[PJ Hardtack]

In Chicoine's book on "Gunsmithing Guns of the Old West", he discusses 'end shake' in Open Tops. He mentions an original '51 Navy he owned with what all of us would consider excessive 'end shake':
"This particular gun had 40 thousandths of an inch gap between cylinder face and the rear of the barrel. That is 32 thousandths larger than what is termed 'maximum' allowed gap, but this gun never shaved lead. It would put 6 balls one on top of the other at 50'."
I've got a repro '60 .44 Army with 'excessive end shake'. It always shot well,  but I had the forcing cone cut when a pal got the kit and was looking for guns to work on. It shoots like a trooper, so I'm going to leave it alone. "if it ain't broke ...."
He also mentions loose cylinder arbors, and I have a .36 repro Navy with the problem.  The fix is something I lack the skills and tools to repair. The gun shoots well enough so I'm living with it.

[Coffinmaker]

FCK,

I had another thought for your loose wedge.  It may however lead to another problem ... barrel to arbor fit.  You have the option of drilling out the pin that secures the arbor in the frame and turning the arbor back 1 turn.  You would then have to surface the back of the arbor flush with the frame (file) and fit a new pin (available as a part) or drill and tap the frame and barrel for a set screw to re-secure the arbor to the frame. 
The above may well fix your loose wedge, but may also screw up your barrel to arbor fit.  Barrel to arbor fit is fixable though, but must be done before you fit a new cylinder.

Coffinmaker

[Fox Creek Kid]

Tonight I spoke to a 'smith in CA who has done work for me in the past and here is what he said. Instead of buying a new cylinder or welding up the gas ring on the old one he recommends machining off the existing gas ring and press fitting a new collar made by him "a la" an early Colt Third Gen. SAA. That way I can save the cylinder and he can obtain perfect headspace. Why didn't I think of that?   He also said that since the gun shoots like a Camp Perry tuned .45 that instead of fiddling with the arbor that he could weld up the front of the wedge and machine it back to make a solid & snug fit.

Sounds like a helluva plan.  

[Coffinmaker]

Sounds righteous to me too!!

Coffinmaker

[garra]

When I acquired a Colt 1877 the cylinder had so much end shake that the stop pawl for the clylinder didn't engage enough to hold it in position.  Rather than bore the cylinder out and sleeve it so I had enough meat to fit it I decided on a different approach.  I measured the gap and figured it was about .008.  I took a .008 feeler gauge from set that had been narrowed to check adjustment and used the large end of the gauge or ther part that already had the large hole in it.  I made it the same size of the cylinder pivot and narrowed it until it slid into gap to accept the nose of the cylinder.  I marked the rest of the gauge to match the concour of the side of the revolver and formed it with a dremel and small round stone, cut out a spot for the ejector to go through.  Stoned the flats to remove the burrs and slid it in before I installed the cylinder, just had to take a smige off the face so it just fit with a minumum of play.  Spun like a new top. Ended up shorting the gauge by about 1/2", just ground the end round again and put it back.