Another question about my 1860 Army

[Papa Irish]

Has anyone ever counter sunk the hammer end of stock nipples on an Uberti?

[Mako]

Has anyone ever counter sunk the hammer end of stock nipples on an Uberti?

Why?  They already have a chamfer on the inside edge.  What are you trying to accomplish?

~Mako

[Flint]

Mako's comment +1

Any reduction of the anvil surface, particularly toward the outside edge will make ignition unreliable.

Flint

[Noz]

There is a thread on another forum about opening up the inside of the "hammer end" of the nipple. the theory is that the smaller rim cause an increased lb/in impact resulting in more reliable ignition.

I don't write them I just report them.

[hellgate]

I've done it on a couple of guns and it seems to work well by allowing a little lighter hammer spring. Basically you are bevelling or drilling out the center on nipples with a large striking area to a smaller striking area and focusing the cap flame down the flash channel. The few original Colts I've handled have a very small surface on the top of the nipples. The Uncle Mike's/Butler Creek nipples are very broad and flat on top and the beveling seemed like a good idea to me.

[Mako]

There is a thread on another forum about opening up the inside of the "hammer end" of the nipple. the theory is that the smaller rim cause an increased lb/in impact resulting in more reliable ignition.

I don't write them I just report them.

PHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!

I just spit coffee all over the screen!

[Mako]

...focusing the cap flame down the flash channel. The few original Colts I've handled have a very small surface on the top of the nipples....

Hellgate,
I think you'll find that the narrowed land is the result of erosion from firing over the years.  Do you have any original cones that were part of a cased pistol?  Look at those, not one that has been on a revolver 140 years and  they look a lot like a Uberti or even a Pietta cone.

As far as focusing flame goes, have you ever had a cap go bang and the pistol not fire unless you had an oil fouled flash hole?  The concept of "hot nipples" is something Thompson made "popular."  I'm not sure who started the concept but you see it with some of the front stuffer crowd.

I don't know who on this forum (and I mean everyone, not just you and me) has shot more percussion revolvers, I mean actual number of shots through them, but I've never had a misfire that wasn't because of a contaminated cap, a blocked hole (happened once), cap not going off, water logging from rain, or oil in the flash hole.  

I don't think you need more blast going down the hole.  If that was the case then we would all be telling everyone to avoid Treso cones.  They have a smaller flash hole.  They also have more bearing surface for the cap which is the antithesis of the smaller bearing surface theory.

My three cents worth...

Your friend,
Mako

[Fox Creek Kid]

...have you ever had a cap go bang and the pistol not fire unless you had an oil fouled flash hole?...

NEVER, and I shot my first cap 'n ball in 1973 if I remember correctly, apart from a few bad caps. I can still remember that first whiff of sulfur.

[Bishop Creek]

...have you ever had a cap go bang and the pistol not fire unless you had an oil fouled flash hole?

I have fired thousands and thousands of balls through cap 'n ball revolvers since 1969 and the only time that has happened to me other than an oil fouled block hole is with a blocked cone channel caused by cheap CCI caps.

[hellgate]

Hellgate,
 Do you have any original cones that were part of a cased pistol?  Look at those, not one that has been on a revolver 140 years and  they look a lot like a Uberti or even a Pietta cone.

As far as focusing flame goes, have you ever had a cap go bang and the pistol not fire unless you had an oil fouled flash hole?  The concept of "hot nipples" is something Thompson made "popular."  I'm not sure who started the concept but you see it with some of the front stuffer crowd.

I don't know who on this forum (and I mean everyone, not just you and me) has shot more percussion revolvers, I mean actual number of shots through them, but I've never had a misfire that wasn't because of a contaminated cap, a blocked hole (happened once), cap not going off, water logging from rain, or oil in the flash hole.  

I don't think you need more blast going down the hole.  If that was the case then we would all be telling everyone to avoid Treso cones.  They have a smaller flash hole.  They also have more bearing surface for the cap which is the antithesis of the smaller bearing surface theory.

My three cents worth...

Your friend,
Mako

Mako, The more I shoot the C&Bs the more I find I don't know as much as I thought or ought to know so your input is respectfully taken. I have not ever handled an original in any kind of pristine condition to knowingly comment on the original appearance. The few I saw had pretty sharp edges to the top of the nipples with large flash holes on the other end. None of the owners allowed me to cock them to tell how heavy the mainsprings were. My experience is pretty much with the repros. I do wonder how the Treso tiny flash holes get the job done other than focusing the flame through a small hole to create a high velocity jet.  I HAVE had "pop" misfires where the paper on the Remington cap was still on the top of the nipple suggesting a lack of priming compound after I had punched a nipple pick through the flash hole into the powder but most misfires are just as you say. My Uberti cones have a fairly small surface area on top but I didn't really note how they looked before I started shooting them so I don't know how eroded they might be. Last year I threw out 230 cap tins I had saved over the years. I'm guessing I've popped about 25,000 since high school. In my chosen profession a fellow can be making the same mistakes for 25 years and they still call it clinical experience so I could still have a flat learning curve and not know a whole lot more than someone who is in the business of knowing our shooting subject. I have had a friendly competitive rivalry with another CAS shooter for about 12-14 years so we are both "gaming" against each other to get a lighter hammer pull,  slicker action, special loads etc as he & I are often the only two Frontiersmen at any given shoot. He uses ROAs and I use everything else but lately have been whooping him with  my old $99 ASM '51 Navy 44s that I have tricked out but have not swapped out the factory nipples since the guns are performing well. Now you've got me to thinking I need to bring some white cotton gloves to the next gun show to see if I can fondle an original one of Colt's revolvers to check out the nips. BTW your gun photography skills leave me in awe.

[Jed Cooper]

I must agree with Mako, and the other learned soot lords responding. Good caps, & clean gun equals reliable ignition. Don't try to reinvent the system, before you give it a fair shot at satisfaction.  I shoot C&B in NCOWS shoots most of the time, with great results. My guns are stock (as made, no modifications). 2nd gen. Colts, as well as clones. Poorly fitting caps, and fouled ignition channels will almost always be the culprit of frustration.   Respectfully submitted,  Jed

[Papa Irish]

My idea was to direct more flash down the hole.  It seems that people with WAY more BP experience than this ole Harp, think it's not a good idea.  I have lots of ideas most of them shouldn't have popped into my haid.
Thanks.

[Mako]

PI,
The Treso cones are set up to do just what you are describing.   I believe you will find the most common recommendation from the knowledgeable cap and ball shooters here will be to replace your stock cones with Treso cones.

Below is a modeled cross section of a Treso cone for an 1860:

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt358/Mako_CAS/Cap%20N%20Ball%20Questions/Tresocones.jpg

The large entry inside diameter of the flash hole allows the ignition charge to be directed into the chamber.  The small exit limits the amount of back blast that will come back through the flash hole.

No matter what you read on any forum, know this; Black Powder is easy to ignite.  Much easier than smokeless and it doesn't required "hot shot" cones to accentuate the blast, magnum primers or anything else.  Tresos basically do four things:

• Limit the blast back through the flash hole, which helps with attenuating cap fracturing and hammer "rebound."  The blast can actually push the hammer back a bit.
• Gives you an ideal length for the cone to assure ignition, they are very uniform in height.
• An optimum cone taper and diameter for the caps.  Tresos have been designed for Remington #11s, though you will find many use #10s very successfully.  The taper is shallow enough it works with both.  11s will fit and not fall off and Remington #10s can be seated with a stick used for seating the caps (never use your thumb with any cap!)
• The Aluminum Bronze material the Treso cones are made from doesn't rust and it is extremely strong.  It resists flame erosion and impact damage

If you do a search you will find many discussions about Treso cones on this forum.

~Mako