Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF

[Silver_Rings]

These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  These loads are NOT for original 1876 rifles.

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.23 crimped over front driving band
Colorado Cast Bullets 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet

Remington standard large rifle primers
alt 6100ft temp about 30

I'm now using a target in front of my chronograph and that has improved the consistency of the reading I am getting.

All of these loads are with a 1/2 x 1/2 x1/2" poly filler

Reloader 7 30.0 grns  Low 1383 high 1444 av 1410 spread 61

5744         27.5 grns  Low 1471 high 1493 av 1481 spread 22

I4198        28.0 grns  Low 1424 high 1479 av 1454 spread 55

I3031        33.0 grns  Low 1374 high 1384 av 1379 spread 10


These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.


Silver Rings

[OKDEE]

Interesting stats!  Thanks for stepping out on a warm day...

I will recheck my loads, but it seemed on my Chaparral (22" barrel),  the powder 3031 was not the best by a long shot, when it came to accuracey and standard deviation.

I seem to remember that 24 grains of 5744 was the best and most accurate.

Great!

Oklahoma Dee

[Silver_Rings]

Some new loads.

These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  These loads are NOT for original 1876 rifles.

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.23 crimped over front driving band
Colorado Cast Bullets 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet

Remington standard large rifle primers
alt 6100ft temp about 50

I'm now using a target in front of my chronograph and that has improved the consistency of the reading I am getting.

All of these loads are with a 1/2 x 1/2 x1/2" poly filler

Reloader 7 31.0 grns  Low 1384 high 1457 av 1430 spread 73

5744         28.0 grns  Low 1499 high 1516 av 1508 spread 17

I4198        29.0 grns  Low 1486 high 1511 av 1497 spread 25

I3031        35.0 grns  Low 1422 high 1494 av 1458 spread 72

Benchmark 36.0 grns  Low 1404 high 1501 av 1464 spread 97


These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.


SR

[Silver_Rings]

Some new loads.

These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  These loads are NOT for original 1876 rifles.

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.26 crimped using Lee's professional crimp die
Colorado Cast Bullets 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet

Remington standard large rifle primers
alt 6100ft temp about 55

I'm now using a target in front of my chronograph and that has improved the consistency of the reading I am getting.

All of these loads are with a 1/2 x 1/2 x1/2" poly filler

Reloader 7 32.0 grns  Low 1457 high 1474 av 1466 spread 17

5744         29.0 grns  Low 1520 high 1550 av 1534 spread 30

I4198        30.0 grns  Low 1561 high 1589 av 1575 spread 28

I3031        36.0 grns  Low 1452 high 1518 av 1491 spread 66

Benchmark 37.0 grns  Low 1498 high 1541 av 1523 spread 43


These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.

[Silver_Rings]

More loads

These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  These loads are NOT for original 1876 rifles.

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.23 crimped over front driving band
Colorado Cast Bullets 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet

Remington standard large rifle primers
alt 6100ft temp about 60
I'm now using a target in front of my chronograph and that has improved the consistency of the reading I am getting.

Filler loads are with a 1/2 x 1/2 x1/2" poly filler

Reloader 7 (filler) 36.0 grns  Low 1606 high 1668 av 1642 spread 62

5744 (filler)         30.0 grns  Low 1591 high 1600 av 1596 spread 9

I4198 (filler)        31.0 grns  Low 1516 high 1635 av 1583 spread 119

I3031 (filler)        39.0 grns  Low 1618 high 1648 av 1633 spread 30

Benchmark          38.0 grns  Low 1293 high 1515 av 1416 spread 222

Benchmark          39.0 grns  Low 1370 high 1561 av 1496 spread 191

This weeks loads

Filler loads are with a 1/2 x 1/2 x1/2" poly filler

Reloader 7 (filler) 37.0 grns  Low 1541 high 1618 av 1584 spread 77

5744 (filler)         31.0 grns  Low 1544 high 1694 av 1636 spread 150

I4198 (filler)        32.0 grns  Low 1626 high 1668 av 1646 spread 42

Benchmark          40.0 grns  Low 1341 high 1483 av 1431 spread 142

Benchmark          41.0 grns  Low 1460 high 1631 av 1541 spread 171

Benchmark          42.0 grns  Low 1493 high 1648 av 1559 spread 155

These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.

SR

[Silver_Rings]

Howdy folks,

Some of you are probably wondering about why I am working up loads that are this fast.  First of all I am having fun doing this.  I have shot my Chappy 76 more than any of my other guns , with the exception of my CAS match guns.  I have shot over 600 rounds through my Chappy 76 without any problems.  I pulled the side plates on it after my last range session and there is no sign of problems.  Once I get the speed that I am looking for I will work on finding the most accurate loads.

I figure the 45-60 in a modern reproduction can match the performance of Springfield 45-70 loads and that is what I'm trying to do.  With the 300 gr hard cast bullet I am looking for 1700 fps, which I have about reached.  With the 405 gr hard cast bullet I am looking for 1500 fps.

These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  These loads are NOT for original 1876 rifles.

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.26 crimped using Lee's professional crimp die

Remington standard large rifle primers
alt 6100ft temp about 50

I'm now using a target in front of my chronograph and that has improved the consistency of the reading I am getting.

Loads with filler use a 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2" poly filler

Loads using Colorado Cast Bullets 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet


Reloader 7 38.0 grns         Low 1566 high 1700 av 1619 spread 134

5744         32.0 grns filler  Low 1660 high 1700 av 1683 spread 40

I4198        33.0 grns filler  Low 1656 high 1681 av 1665 spread 25

Benchmark 44.0 grns        Low 1629 high 1700 av  1657 spread 71

Benchmark 45.0 grns        Low 1705 high 1738 av  1720 spread 33


I've started work on loads for 405 gr hard cast lead bullets.

Loads using Colorado Cast Bullets 405 gr hard cast rnfp bullet


Reloader 7 30.0 grns filler   Low 1403 high 1433 av 1413 spread 30

5744         21.0 grns filler  Low 1132 high 1157 av 1146 spread 25

I4198        23.0 grns filler  Low 1187 high 1230 av 1208 spread 43

Benchmark 35.0 grns        Low 1318 high 1367 av 1340 spread 49



These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.

Silver Rings

[Joe Lansing]

    Does anyone have any experience using 4895 or 4759? I'd be very interested in loading info using 4895 and 4759.

                                                                    J.L.

[RedBaron]

I am extremely reluctant to respond, but here goes. Since this forum's inception, I have read, and used, the under- powered loads  listed. Some of been so low that the bullet barely exits the barrel, if the ultra light powder charge (4198,etc) even ignites.
Fiirst of all, I have been casting (RCBS 320 GR GC), loading, and shooting a 45-60 WCF for nearly 4-years. Several thousand rounds.
The toggle-link (modern repo) is not nearly as weak as some think it is, or as strong as some want it to be. Mr. Lansing asked about 4895. I have used that powder with good results, very accurate. The best ,however, is a slightly compressed load of H4831. After 500 + rounds of that load, I have found that it is by far the most accurate and consistent of anything I have tried. Before anyone responds, check out Ken Waters Pet Loads for cast bullets in the 45-70. Interpret from there, with common sense, of course.

Powders used with best results (with consistency,pressure, and accuracy as the standards):

1. H4831
2. 5744
3. H4895 (actually tied with 5744)
4. 2015

[Trailrider]

{snip for bandwidth}
The best ,however, is a slightly compressed load of H4891. After 500 + rounds of that load, I have found that it is by far the most accurate and consistent of anything I have tried. Before anyone responds, check out Ken Waters Pet Loads for cast bullets in the 45-70. Interpret from there, with common sense, of course.

Powders used with best results (with consistency,pressure, and accuracy as the standards):

1. H4891
2. 5744
3. H4895 (actually tied with 5744)
4. 2015

What is H4891? I've used H4831 and H4895 for years, but H4891 is a new one on me. Something I've been ignoring or...?

[RedBaron]

Sorry. Thanks for pointing out my typo.  H4831..corrected.

[larryo_1]

Red Baron:
Got a question for you concerning H4831. I do not have a 45-60 rather a 45-75.  It is an early Uberti wilth the larger chamber.  That I like by the way.  My question is this:  I decided to try 4831 in both the "H" and the "I" versions and the short grain version also.  I still am getting alot of powder grains left over after each shot.  I quit testing at 54 grains/two cardboard wads and magnum primers under a 350 grain bullet.  I wanted to get rid of the powder grains which averaged about 5 grains per shot.  That is in both the case and the barrel.  So, I just gave up.  The velocities were between 1250 and 1350 fps.  No adverse signs of pressures either.  So...do you have these leftovers or not.  And if you do what do you do about them..if anything at all.

[RedBaron]

Use mag-primers and good crimp (Redding profile). A modified 45-70 case to 45-60 spec's (Win. or Rem.) will take about 52 grs of the standard H4831. Case length = 1.855". Yes, it is short, but I have no feeding problems.  Have not tried either the IMR verson, or the "short" length. You will get some unburned residue, but not NEAR as much as 5744.  Accurate.. very accurate.

[larryo_1]

Red Baron:

I did use Magnum primers and a Lee factory crimp on the cases.  The brass I used was Jamison 45-75 brass.  I can still play around with that 4831 some more and increase the charge some more.  As I said-other than the residue, there was nothing wrong with the loads that I tested other than I would like to see the fps more in the 1350-1400 range but that is not critical either.  Anyway thanks for your input.

[Silver_Rings]

These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  These loads are NOT for original 1876 rifles.

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.26 crimped using Lee's professional crimp die

Remington standard large rifle primers
alt 6100ft temp about 50

I'm now using a target in front of my chronograph and that has improved the consistency of the reading I am getting.

Loads with filler use a 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2" poly filler

Loads using Colorado Cast Bullets 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet


Reloader 7 39.0 grns         Low 1806 high 1932 av 1887 spread 126

5744         32.5 grns filler  Low 1811 high 1857 av 1827 spread 46

I4198        34.0 grns filler  Low 1839 high 1872 av 1850 spread 33



Loads using Colorado Cast Bullets 405 gr hard cast rnfp bullet


Reloader 7 31.0 grns filler   Low 1383 high 1616 av 1532 spread 233

5744         23.0 grns filler  Low 1266 high 1326 av 1296 spread 60

I4198        25.0 grns filler  Low 1366 high 1378 av 1373 spread 12

Benchmark 36.0 grns        Low 1322 high 1460 av 1407 spread 138

Benchmark 37.0 grns        Low 1481 high 1537 av 1509 spread 56



These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  Do NOT use in original 1876 rifles.

Silver Rings

[Jubal Wilson]

Red Baron
I to have been in quest of accurate loads for my Uberti 45-60 with 28 inch barrel. I know that each rifle is different and that I may get different results than you have but I would like to ask you some questions. First I crammed 65 gr of Swiss 1 ¹/₂ no wad standard primer under the RCBS 45 - 300 GC (321 gr at 20:1) and get about 1370 fps. Accruacy is unknown because the day I chronographed this load it was blowing so hard it blew the tripod with the sky screens over twice. Anyway that is why I want to keep the velocity between 1400 to 1450 fps but accuracy is the most important thing for me. I have been using 5744 and IMR4198 with good results. I have been using Puff-Lon filler with these powders and it pretty much eliminates the unburned grains of powder. My best load so far with 5744 is 26.5 gr with Puff-lon and the RCBS bullet for a velocity of 1420 and a standard deviation of 2.7. Groups, if I do my part, range from 1 ³/₄ to 2 ¹/₂ inches at 50 yards.
My questions for you are 1) do you have a 28 inch barrel? 2) what kind of velocity do you get if you stuff 52.0 gr of H4831 into a 45-60 case? 3) is the unburned powder in your barrel loose to where it will run back into the action? and 4) can you give me a rough idea of your definition of accuracy?
I want to thank you for bringing this powder to my attention and for any answers to my questions that you provide.
Paul

[Grizzly Adams]

Hey, Rings, this is a fine and very useful thread.  With your permission, I will pin it so it remains on top for folks.

[Silver_Rings]

Howdy Grizzly,

Go right ahead and pin it.  I hope it help folks out some.

Silver Rings

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Silver Rings
I have tried the reloader 7and it was good , and the imr 3031 I have loaded but haven't had a chance to shoot yet . If it will ever quit raining maybe I can slip out and fire a few rounds . Thanks for posting this loading info . 

[Silver_Rings]

Rowdy,

Glad to help.

Silver Rings

[RedBaron]

Jubal (Early?)..... barrel length is 28".. suspect the velocity is 1200-1300 (no chrono).. the powder residue is much less than 5744..does not get in the action.. routinely achieve 3-shot groups (100 yds) measuring 1 1/4" -1 3/8", or less if I do my part.  My 76 is set up with a Marbles tang sight and Lyman 17A, with I believe a 1/32" bead.  I use a 3" black target at 100 yards and 12" at 200 yards.
At 200 yards, I get 3-4", or less on a real good day. The only bullet I shoot is a 320 gr RCBS GC (Lee lube) I cast from wheel weights. Hence the case length of 1.855" with a overall length of 2.272". Works perfectly thru the action. As stated earlier,mag primers with 4831 and Redding profile crimp.  All shooting from a bench.  Bullets sized .459". Hope this helps.