Soy grease

[Noz]

I watched a History channel program on "grease" last night and they featured a plant in Iowa that is making all sorts of heavy duty, high heat etc greases out of soybean oil. This would put these greases in the local auto parts store and make some interesting possibilities for black powder lubes.

The best pistol lube I've ever come up with (for smokeless only) was based on a high pressure, high strength, lithium grease with graphite.

[Mako]

Noz,
It might be a possible replacement for Mutton Tallow.  Ever since the "mad cow" disease scare, tallows which were used a lot in animal feeds or as a byproduct of feed processing have gotten harder to get other than lard.  Lard oxidizes relatively easily and goes rancid so it is not used in large industrial feed operations.  I have been doing some reading into the differences between petroleum derived grease and heavy oils and the animal fats and vegetable fats we find works with Black Powder.

It is appearing it is not so much what petroleum greases have in them that creates the hard "tar" looking residues, but in fact what they lack. Animal fats and vegetable oils contain a lot of "Fatty Acids."  Which in the case of saturated animal fats act as emulsifiers and give them their semi solid characteristics.  The three primary acids in Mutton Tallow are Oleic acid, Palmitic acid and Stearic Acid.  Soy beans have more linolenic acid than anything else which is not surprising because it is plant based.  The next two acids by percentage are oleic and palmitic as a saturated acid, it also has stearic acid.

Petroleum greases have "soaps" added to them as emulsifiers to make them thicker.  Organic emulsifiers would increase the affinity for water which is the chemical mechanism that keeps Black Powder fouling soft, but the petroleum in the forms we see as extreme pressure or high pressure greases is hydrophobic and the emulsifiers are usually sterates such as lithium, sodium or calcium sterates.  The sterates do increase water content to some extent, but not to the levels of natural fatty acids.

Fatty acids are hydrophilic and bond with hydrogen during exposure to heat incorporating water into the compounds that are created.  Petroleum is hydrophobic by nature and has limited incorporation of water liberated or created by the combustion process.

Without the oxygen in the water in the compound the carbon is free to associate with other elements and creates the hard substance we see in both smokeless and Black Powder residues.

The hard to clean carbon fouling is simply the product of pyrolysis.  It is simply the conversion of an organic substance through carbonization.  In any pyrolytic process oxygen is removed and you are left with a hard carbon or carbon compound unless there is an abundant source of oxygen that keeps the process from fully removing the oxygen.  Water supplies the oxygen to keep the pyrolysis to a minimum.  With hydrophilic additives or naturally occurring sources as you have with the fatty acids in non-petroleum oils or "greases" they keep the pyrolysis from being as complete.

Does that sound reasonable?

Regards,
Mako (sitting bored at a medical conference...)

[Tequila Jim]

Wish I had of paid attention to that show. Use soy wax in DD's Peral Lube. Wonder what they use
to make the soy grease semi liquid. Regards, Jim

[Dick Dastardly]

FWIW, PL Classic and PL-II both are motion sensitive.  Move them and they become more pliable.  Move them more and they start to flow.  Thus is the charm of the Pearl Lube formulations.  They stay put till they are moved, then they become more and more fluid.  Check the muzzle on yer gun after shooting Big Lube®LLC bullets loaded up with PL-II and  you will find it wet.  Fouling will be soft and blow out easily on the following shot.  Accuracy and function will remain, on and on.

It's the combination of ingredients, including the container blend soy wax that allows this miracle to happen.

DD-DLoS

[Noz]

Looked around a bit and did not find an MSDS on the soy grease.

[Mako]

Noz,
This is what I found a few weeks ago.  ELM makes extreme pressure grease that has been approved for fifth wheel use and for rail road curve lubrication systems.  It also makes a "food grade" grease for equipment that uses a different emulsifier.  The EP grease has the standard Lithium emulsifier you see in so many petroleum greases.  The food grade grease uses an Aluminum Soap emulsifier.  That's the one you should focus on.

Here are the links to the two MSDS sheets and line descriptions:

http://www.elmusa.com/products/datasheets/greases/msds/SoyGrease_Food_Machinery.pdf
http://www.elmusa.com/products/datasheets/greases/soygrease_food_machinery_nlgi_1_2.pdf

http://www.elmusa.com/products/datasheets/greases/msds/SoyGrease_EP_Premium_msds.pdf
http://www.elmusa.com/products/datasheets/greases/soygrease_ep_premium.pdf

They have other greases on their site and I think they sell a consumer sample kit.

Poke around a bit more and see what you can find.

Regards,
Mako

[Noz]

My thought was maybe a 50-50 soywax-soygrease and adjust for hardness in the lubesizer.
Would be about as organic as it would be possible to make.

[Mako]

My thought was maybe a 50-50 soywax-soygrease and adjust for hardness in the lubesizer.
Would be about as organic as it would be possible to make.

OOOOOH...that makes me feel are warm and environmentally correct inside.

Now I just need to wear cloth boots and have holsters and belts made out of hemp.

We need a new board just for the Vegan Cowboys.  We can call it VEEPS.  WooooHooo!!!!

Mako

[Dick Dastardly]

My reasons for using container blend soy wax in PL-II and PL-Classic was that it was readily available in large quantities, kept well, handled well (being flakes), was uniform batch to batch, had the right melt temperature, played well with other waxes (mixed well).  Soy wax has a property that I define as a Teflon like coating that guns acclimate to and clean up easily.  I use it alone to lube my scattergun wads, hint, hint.

DD-DLoS

[Cuts Crooked]

Mako & DD,

Youse guyz 'r gonna keep xperimentin wif lubes 'n end up makin' Big Lube Boolits obsolete.

[Dick Dastardly]

Nah Cuts, we'll just make 'em even easier to use and clean up after.  We're in this for FUN.  Anything I can do to make it easier and more fun I'll do just cuz I'm that way.

DD-DLoS

[Noz]

I like the idea of being able to run to the autop parts store and gather my lube materials rather than making purchases on the internet and running all over the place. Of course it would be a tremendous time saver, I make up a batch of lube every 2 years or so.

[Mako]

I like the idea of being able to run to the autop parts store and gather my lube materials rather than making purchases on the internet and running all over the place. Of course it would be a tremendous time saver, I make up a batch of lube every 2 years or so.

Noz,
I think you are missing the concept of buying on the internet.  The preferred technique is not to run anywhere but rather sit in your underwear and order online.  Then the friendly men in the brown uniforms drops it off at your front door (a word of caution here, put on trousers if they ring the doorbell).

~Mako

[Noz]

but you don't understand,


I want it NOW

[Mako]

but you don't understand,


I want it NOW

But I do understand, and you won't get it now... not unless you go to an ELM distributor.  

There is this other really neat concept they have now,  it's called "overnight delivery."  I know it sounds far fetched, I mean really, how do they get a hitch team fast enough to deliver from central Iowa to South Missouri overnight?

~Mako

[Noz]

Yeah, but them oxen are really tired when they get here.

[john boy]

Youse guyz 'r gonna keep xperimentin wif lubes 'n end up makin' Big Lube Boolits obsolete

Cuts ... and it hasn't even got around yet to meadowfoam, fish oil, microcrystalline wax, ozokerite and cericen waxes!
My next 'witch's brew' is going to be mutton tallow : microcrystalline wax : beeswax and a shot of fish oil.  Nearly all the large carbon atoms and double bonds are present, it will be on the hard side and work in both hot and cold weather  
As for the ozokerite and cericen waxes, NASA Lube from Bullshop has them in it.  A very good lube for bullets with shallow lube grooves, such as Dan Theodore's Mini Groove

[Mako]

John Boy,
If you use Mutton Tallow then you'll just be back to where we were before...We need a replacement.

You'll never be able to post on the VEEPS board if you keep that attitude.

Noz is starting a new group called VEgan Environmentally Progressive Shooters.  I think the Mutton Tallow will be a dis-qualifier.

~Mako

[john boy]

Mako, I too subscribe to Ranch 13's philosophy ... Eat more beef mutton the west wasn't won on a salad.

[Mako]

Mako, I too subscribe to Ranch 13's philosophy ... Eat more beef mutton the west wasn't won on a salad.

What is this world coming to?  Cowboys eating Beef?  It's their job to protect them dogies!!