Can Hammers On a Hammer double be bent to fit?

Yahoo Delirious · January 29, 2011, 05:10:04 PM

Strange question, I know but I thought I'd give it a go. I have a TTN that I'd like to put taller hammers on. I pulled the tall hammers off my old damascus shotgun and they almost fit. They rest a little too far away from the firing pin to get a strong hit. The left hammer will hit the pin but I think probably too lightly. The right hammer is way off and on looking at it, you can tell it's bent. I was wondering if a gunsmith could heat 'em up and bend the body a little to bring the face of the hammers closer to the firing pins.

The tall hammers give alot more leverage to where it feels like the springs were worked on. Plus I could do the "cock and open move" much easier and faster. (The tall hammers look pretty cool too).

So, is it possible? Or should I just stick with the hammers the gun came with?

Thanks, Y-D

Pettifogger · January 29, 2011, 06:48:21 PM

I've worked on a lot of TTN's and know many, many people that shoot them. One of the things everyone likes is the fact that it has large, tall, close set hammers. That is why it is probably the most popular outside hammer gun for competition. TTN actually quit importing shotguns about three years ago. The gun is actually a copy of the Colt 1878 and they have been a little hard to find the last year or so. Are you sure that is what you have? Many of the other Chinese outside hammer doubles have small hammers and stiff springs, but the "TTN" isn't one of them. Most of them came equipped with reduced strength springs and are fairly easy to cock. This is a TTN is high gear.

http://www.spencerhoglund.com/files/Cap0010.MPG

Yahoo Delirious · January 29, 2011, 07:36:43 PM

Hi Pettifogger,

Yes, It's a TTN sold thru EMF. (I have all the paper work) It is a later model because it has the big bead front sight as well as the thru bolt in the side plates behind the hammers for lock plate strength.

I don't know if it has the lightened hammer springs since I have nothing to compare it to. They are heavier than my old damascus shotgun though. It could be because the damascus gun's hammers are taller than the TTN"s are.

Don't get me wrong. I think it's an awesome gun as it is. I just have to customize it to make it mine. I like having stuff thats a little different from everyone else.

When you say you have worked on TTN's does that mean you can bend some hammers for me?

Ten Wolves Fiveshooter · January 29, 2011, 07:43:22 PM

I don't think you can find better hammer placement than you'll find on the TTN, and they come that way, the video Pettifogger shared shows this, the only thing I did to my hammers was to remove the little barb at the front of the hammer so that it's smooth and not a problem when thumbing your hammer back, IMHO, I'd leave well enough alone.

tEN wOLVES

Yahoo Delirious · January 30, 2011, 08:02:17 AM

The way the pard (Is that Cap?) in the video is handling the gun is the way I have been practicing. Either he has a strong wrist and hand or I need lighter springs. (or both)

I emailed EMF and got a reply that they don't sell lighter springs for the shotgun.

Anybody know where I could buy a set or would I have to ship the gun to a smith?

I already filed down the sharp lips on the hammers after learning the bloody hard way.

Thanks, Y-D

Pettifogger · January 30, 2011, 09:51:38 AM

The fellow in the video is T-Bone Dooley. He has strong wrists and hands. The actual importer of the 1878 at this time is Cimarron. Call them and see if they have any parts. The 1878 has been unavailable for many months. However, at the SHOT Show the Cimarron folks said they had located a batch in China and were arranging to have them shipped to the U.S. If you can't shoot like T-Bone, don't feel bad. He is the seven time World and National Champion Classic Cowboy and practices thousands of rounds of shotgun per week.

Ten Wolves Fiveshooter · January 30, 2011, 10:06:27 AM

It sounds like you have one of the first TTN guns that were sold, they had very strong hammer springs, Walter Johnson was the importer and sold to EMF and Taylors, and he would give you the extra lighter springs at no cost, EMF changed mine for me at no charge to me before I picked it up at " Walker 47 " if EMF doesn't have any more of the reduced/lighter springs, check with Taylors or Cimmaron, they sold the TTN also, otherwise have a smith work on it, you could do this yourself, but you have to be careful not to over heat the spring, if you have time you can use a file and go slow and check the results as you do this, you don't want to take too much off, and always file the length, never across, or you will create a weak spot in the spring, and that can cause the spring to break, after filing if you choose to do this, polish the spring length wise and remove any and all scratches that might be going across the spring, any scratches that are going across the spring can turn into a crack and then break.

tEN wOLVES

Yahoo Delirious · January 30, 2011, 05:37:09 PM

Thanks all,

I'll give Cimmaron a call tomorrow.

T- Bone Dooley is the man!

I love the hammer gun! I only practice enough to shoot smoothly (and keep up with my 14 year old).

Thanks again, Y-D

Goody · January 31, 2011, 07:30:33 AM

Yahoo, here is little more footage of Bone. This one is in Kentucky, on a stage where the shooter moves forward to engage targets.

He is qyuite an amazing fellow, and the salt of the earth.

Coffinmaker · January 31, 2011, 09:46:18 PM

The answer to your original question is ....... probably. The attempt may also ruin the hammers to your old damascus gun. If the "tall" hammers are what you really want, I would suggest checking with Pedersoli for a set of hammers for their "Wyatt Earp" double gun. Very tall hammers. See if they fit (may be an expensive answer though).
First, check with Cimarron about lighter main springs. With lighter main springs you may also need to reduce the return springs to match. Find someone competent to do the work.

Coffinmaker

PS: I am in lust with the Pedersoli hammer double. Plan to have one in the next month. Business permitting.

Pettifogger · January 31, 2011, 09:54:55 PM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on January 31, 2011, 09:46:18 PM
The answer to your original question is ....... probably. The attempt may also ruin the hammers to your old damascus gun. If the "tall" hammers are what you really want, I would suggest checking with Pedersoli for a set of hammers for their "Wyatt Earp" double gun. Very tall hammers. See if they fit (may be an expensive answer though).
First, check with Cimarron about lighter main springs. With lighter main springs you may also need to reduce the return springs to match. Find someone competent to do the work.

Coffinmaker

PS: I am in lust with the Pedersoli hammer double. Plan to have one in the next month. Business permitting.

They had them at the SHOT Show. Very nice as are all Pedersoli products. Only thing that could be nicer is if it had coil main springs to make it easy to tune and not worry about ruining the V-springs.

Coffinmaker · February 01, 2011, 08:11:05 AM

Pettifogger,

My other choice would be a Pioneer Hammer Double. It's my understanding the "new Build" Pioneers will have new hammers more like TTN hammers. A little taller and closer together. I tend to think Pedersoli will be around longer than Pioneer will.
I haven't seen a new build Pioneer but have lusted over the Pioneers I've handled. Really incredible machine work and really nice short barrels.

Coffinmaker

Yahoo Delirious · February 01, 2011, 12:01:23 PM

Coffinmaker,

Are you talking about the "La Bohémienne''? Man, that is a gorgeous gun. And those hammers are exactly what I'm talking about. Nice and tall!

Looks like the angle of the firing pins may be different than the TTN though.

How much do you think that puppy will run?

I did call Cimarron and they said check back in March when they get the guns and extra parts in. So, there is hope.

Y-D

Coffinmaker · February 01, 2011, 04:47:44 PM

Delirious,

Not familiar with the one you mention. The Pedersoli I want is called "the Doc Holliday."

Coffinmaker

Pettifogger · February 01, 2011, 09:01:24 PM

Yep, toying with the idea of the Pioneer as the quality and fit and finish is phenomenal. They are, however, VERY heavy. They are supposed to be coming out with walnut stocks sometime this year. (The existing models are beech stained walnut.) They sent T-Bone Dooley the prototype with the higher hammers and he told them they did not look or feel right. Don't know if they are going to continue and try a different hammer arrangement. Very limited production gun. One thing I really like is the mainsprings are coils and they are LIGHT. Two of the factory guys were on my posse at Winter Range last year. Not sure if they are making it this year.

Coffinmaker · February 02, 2011, 08:42:24 AM

Pettifogger,

Heavy is a good thing. For my taste most coach guns are too light. Too much felt recoil. That's why I like the TTN (Cimarron) so much. Heavy enough to soak up lots of recoil. Same same the Pioneer. Heavy enough to soak up an awful lot of recoil. Since we're only holding them up for a few seconds, I don't see the weight as a handicap.
Unless you drop it on your foot

Coffinmaker

Pettifogger · February 02, 2011, 10:02:12 AM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on February 02, 2011, 08:42:24 AM
Pettifogger,

Heavy is a good thing. For my taste most coach guns are too light. Too much felt recoil. That's why I like the TTN (Cimarron) so much. Heavy enough to soak up lots of recoil. Same same the Pioneer. Heavy enough to soak up an awful lot of recoil. Since we're only holding them up for a few seconds, I don't see the weight as a handicap.
Unless you drop it on your foot

Coffinmaker

Heavy is a good thing for recoil, but I don't have the wrist, arm and upper body strength of T-Bone and the TTN is plenty heavy for me. The Pioneer is even heavier, hard to shuck shells with one hand. But what a nice piece of work. One thing I have noticed about the Pioneers is that there are absolutely no visible markings on the gun. Maker, gauge, choke, etc. What little there is is on the water table and it is not even visible when the barrels are open.

Coffinmaker · February 02, 2011, 12:21:17 PM

Same here. Youth is waisted on the young

I don't know how recently Pioneer sent a gun to T-Bone but I have been hoping to see the the new Pioneer this spring. I also hope the TTN/Cimarron doesn't go away. I think they are the best value for dollar in a Coach Gun, with or without hammers.
Cimarron has had some "issues" with their new single trigger inside hammer Coach so it will be interesting to see how that plays out and if Cimarron goes to the same manufacturer if the Chinese quit manufacturing the current gun.
Fun game we play isn't it!!

Coffinmaker

Yahoo Delirious · February 02, 2011, 01:43:57 PM

Good news,

A nice young lady at Taylor's called me and said the gunsmith handed her the last parts they had for the TTN shotgun - happened to be the main springs. She didn't know if they were the lighter ones, although she did say they felt pretty light in her hand! I giggled and explained what I meant by lighter. She said the gunsmith had just left and couldn't get the answer so I bought them hoping they are the right ones. If they aren't than I have an extra set to try and file down and throw out if I mess up.

Coffinmaker,

I found the Wyatt Earp shotgun you were talking about. Looks the same as the La boheime but without the long barrels and the checkering. I can only imagine they must want at least 2k for the La boheime.

Pettifogger · February 02, 2011, 04:45:44 PM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on February 02, 2011, 12:21:17 PM
Same here. Youth is waisted on the young I don't know how recently Pioneer sent a gun to T-Bone but I have been hoping to see the the new Pioneer this spring. I also hope the TTN/Cimarron doesn't go away. I think they are the best value for dollar in a Coach Gun, with or without hammers.
Cimarron has had some "issues" with their new single trigger inside hammer Coach so it will be interesting to see how that plays out and if Cimarron goes to the same manufacturer if the Chinese quit manufacturing the current gun.
Fun game we play isn't it!!

Coffinmaker

I talked to our friends at Cimmarron (they are one of our Winter Range sponsors) and Abilene said they had found some more 1878s in China and were hoping for a shipment later this year. Unclear about whether the Chinese are still actually making new ones or if this is the last of the old stock.